A concerned JW wrote "mistakes will happen."

by InterestedOne 225 Replies latest jw friends

  • sizemik

    punkofnice makes a good point . . . as does besty's quote . . .

    Most human individuals or organisations at least acknowledge that "mistakes were made" and then employ that very human trait of becoming as remote as possible from the mistake . . .

    But the WTS does not even acknowledge the mistake . . . but shifts the mistake in it's entirety, over to someone else to take the blame and responsibility, which is a greater wrong IMO. Of course, they, unlike humans generally, need to maintain the illusion of being God's spokesman and having some special wisdom. When the deception becomes clear . . . it becomes painfully obvious they are nothing of the sort.

    The defence of their position requires them to grossly exaggerate a human trait to defend a superhuman concept . . . hence the need for greater cunning and consciousness in achieving the required remoteness from their mistakes. It's a weightier error they perpetrate for this reason IMO. It passes over from a simple human failing, into a conscious and deliberate deception . . . no different from corporate fraudsters who rip-off their investors.

    There is no way this can be done inadvertently. But, because it's not money, or something of quantifiable value they steal . . . nobody much cares

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    Concerned JW, just so we can get a better handle on how much you actually know about the organization you are defending, have you read either Crisis of Conscience or Combatting Cult Mind Control? Have you read Mistakes Were Made or any other psychology book discussing justification, confirmation bias, and cognitive dissonance?

  • punkofnice

    This is how they 'apologised' by blaming the R&F for the 1975 debacle...

    11 It may be that some who have been serving God have planned their lives according to a mistaken viewof just what was to happen on a certain date or in a certain year. They may have, for this reason, put off or neglected things that they otherwise would have cared for. Butthey have missed the point of the Bible’s warnings concerning the end of this system of things, thinking that Bible chronology reveals the specific date.


    15 But it is not advisable for us to set our sights on a certain date, neglecting everyday things we would ordinarily care for as Christians, such as things that we and our families really need. We may be forgetting that, when the “day” comes, it will not change the principle that Christians must at all times take care of all their responsibilities. If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought,he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises.

    Watchtower 1976 July 15 pp.440-441

  • sizemik

    Contrast that with what was being said immediately prior to 1975

    • "Does God's rest day parallel the time man has been on earth since his creation? Apparently so. ? In what year, then, would the first 6,000 years of man's existence and also the first 6,000 years of Gods rest day come to an end? The year 1975. ? It means that within a relatively few years we will witness the fulfilment of the remaining prophecies that have to do with the "time of the end"." Awake! 1966 October 8 pp.19-20

    "T oday there is a great crowd of people who are confident that a destruction of even greater magnitude is now imminent. The evidence is that Jesus' prophecy will shortly have a major fulfilment, upon this entire system of things. This has been a major factor in influencing many couples to decide not to have children at this time." Awake! 1974 November 8 p.11

    "Yes, since the summer of 1973 there have been new peaks in pioneers every month. Now there are 20,394 regular and special pioneers in the United States, an all-time peak. That is 5,190 more than there were in February 1973! A 34-percent increase! Does that not warm our hearts? Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service.Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end."Kingdom Ministry May 1974 p.3 How Are You Using Your Life?"

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    Oh well, it isn't like lives were ruined or anything.

    Oh wait, yeah they WERE!

  • Concerned JW
    Concerned JW

    Interestedone Your question is clearly a loaded one. Asking me to identify mistakes is trying to make me accept the point I am contesting. Please address my point rather than throw loaded questions at me.

    Punkofnice the randcam issue is a very manufactured one which even if all the accusations were correct (which I doubt) I wouldn't consider it a wrongdoing (the randcam was possibly donated shares to a factory that made parts that could have been used in a tank how far removed is that?). There is a a measure of nitpicking with the majority if items you mentioned. Hense why I said "perceived". Some are actually attacking what God's people are supposed to do. We are given the bible for correction 1 tim 3:16 among other things so that shows that mistakes will happen that we will need to be "corrected" what you call "flip-flops" is this bible principle in action especially on bible prophecy. I would be more worried if they didn't allow for mistakes to be corrected when it is revealed that they are incorrect biblically.

    And again Punkofnice you like interestedone are trying to get me to defend mistakes you perceive are wrong. Does the bible expect and say that God's people as a congregation or organisation will be mistake free?

    MrDarkknight please explain what higher standard you expected? We are either perfect or imperfect there is no middle-ground. We also function under the constant pull of the flesh hense Galations 5 is very useful on understanding this point and being warned too. gal 5:15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other."

  • Witness My Fury
    Witness My Fury
    I would be more worried if they didn't allow for mistakes to be corrected when it is revealed that they are incorrect biblically.

    What, like 607 bce? They have known that is bogus since at least 1977 when they received C.O.Jonsons treatise on the subject, if not before then. But they will NEVER change it until at least 2035 when all hopes of linking ANYTHING to 1914 cease to be remotely possible in the minds of the rank and file JWs and they will lose their claimed authority.


    The Watchtower Society's changing idea of what truth is reminds me of one of Groucho Marx's one-liners.

    "These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others."

  • punkofnice

    @concerned = We are given the bible for correction 1 tim 3:16

    Interesting choice of scripture - sorry, I don't get it?

    Did you mean 2 Tim 3:16? If so vs:17 is all the proof I need that the Bible is enough

    From the NIV for no other reason than I can copy paste it from my PC -

    17 so that the servant of God [a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

    It says 'thouroughly equipped'. That is not needing anything else, no other publications by the score and that all the constant flow of publications is indicating another agenda.

    Not being evasive but my time is limited today.

    In summary - Randcam etc believe it or believe it not...it's a personal choice as are many things. I will defend your right to disbelieve it if you would defend my right to believe it.

    I do not hold that Randcam/Philip Morris are the MAIN proofs that the watchtower organization is just man made and not the one true religion. there are plenty of other proofs.

    Anyway. You sound like my Mum. Are you in the UK too? What do you do in your congregation?

  • Concerned JW
    Concerned JW

    607 is where the bible chronology conflicts with one source of secular information so it is really an attack on the bible.

    Punkoface you are right it is 2 tim not 1 tim. But if you are going to use context, use the whole context. Please look at verse 14 "but as for you, continue in what you learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you have learned it." We are taught the correct meanings from others using the bible. The principle of philip and the eunuch shows this as well.

    Randcam like I said is nitpicking, hearsay and making a something (which even if it is true) into a wrongdoing when it isn't.

    Are these sort of nitpicking manufactured mistakes adequate reasons for leaving or staying away from Jehovah's people?

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