by InterestedOne 225 Replies latest jw friends
On another thread about Matt 5:5 concerned says that they have 'adjusted' their thinking on the definition of 'the meek'.
Cant the WTB$ get ANYTHING to be consistant? I mean ANYTHING? I can't think of a single, solitary thing that they haven't changed or flip-flopped on at the moment!?!?!?!??!
False expectations of perfection are unrealistic. Name one scripture that says Jehovah's people will be marked by following God's word without mistakes? I am not trying to justify mistakes but showing that you have to realistic and biblical about what Jehovah's congregation is meant to achieve at this time!
It is not us trying to excuse mistakes but those that use mistakes as an excuse to leave.
It is not us trying to excuse mistakes but those that use mistakes as an excuse to leave.
I don't wish to get into a debate, just share points of view in a civilized manner. However, I believe to use the word 'excuse' to leave is a bit harsh. In fact it seems to be the propaganda technique of 'attack the person' and maybe even a 'strawman' in some ways. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way but it's been said.
I left because of what I discovered when I was an elder. I was revolted by what went on behind the scenes, the letters from HQ, the politics from the GB. The guff about 'holy spirit' at work in elder's meetings. I saw no evidence and I REALLY believed at that time. I cannot tell you how zealous I was for what I thought was the 'truth'.
I did not need an 'excuse' to leave, I left because my conscience would not allow me to be part of an organization that blatantly goes by pharisee type rules and regulations. I could no longer be part of an organization that joined the UN and gains money from Philip Morris tobbacco (whilst smoking is a DFing offence) and RandCam. They have not in my opinion at least 'quit touching the unclean thing'.
Why shouldn't people leave? Why should they be trapped? why should they lose family, loved ones and friends just because they disagree? My family life is hell because I have a wife who is even more zealous now than when I was in and thinks she holds the pious higher ground EVERY DAY. You tell me how Christian that is!
Why has the organization turned the following quote into a lie?
"No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family." Awake! 2009 July p.29 (p.28)
There's no point in following the directives of imperfect men.
Even the bible says that.
I apologise I should maybe have said uses percieved mistakes as a reason to "continue to stay away" because the list you have just used are learned ones from ex-JWs and most aren't even true and are very spurious in origin like the randcam one which has being doing the "circuit" (forgive the pun) for years. You are an ex-elder but by simply using the bible which itself is the spirit inspired word means you are using spirit guidance. Thats why they always use the bible at the meetings especially focussing on the principle of one scripture.
I have no problem with the organisational structure of witnesses it is very biblical. The principle of Heb 13:17 shows this, they have the authority. Whatever failtures you saw would have been from personal imperfection seeping in and that is why they still have to render an "account"
The "do not associate" scriptures are very solid I'm surprised you challenge that point?
because the list you have just used are learned ones from ex-JWs and most aren't even true
So. I'm sure you don't mean to call me a liar but that's how it looks.
The use of
percieved mistakes
is including a 'weasle' word 'perceived' to minimise the culpability of the GB and throw the blame on to the person that allegedly 'perceives'.
It's typical for a person under mind control to be unable to see the leaders (men, not God), as immune from any critisism.
If you want proof about RandCam I have it. Not from 'apostates' (the invisible enemy that only really exists in JW polarised US vs: THEM thinking), but secular. An historic proof about the UN too.
You are an ex-elder but by simply using the bible which itself is the spirit inspired word means you are using spirit guidance.
Yes, I am an ex-elder but please don't use this to imply I have no worth or no knowlege of how the corporation works. Using the Bible is how to use the spirit? This is just total spin I have to say.
So then, if a Catholic, protestant or hindu uses the scriptures then they get the same guidance even if their desicion is soley based on scripture and is different from the 'flock' book or the letters from JW HQ the secretary of the congregation keeps?
So. What are your thought on the following (please don't take any of this personally, I'm enjoying a passionate chat. I don't get to do this very often. I like you though. You are at least willing to stand up for your beliefs.)
where was I? Oh, yes.
Your thoughts.....
Why shouldn't people leave? Why should they be trapped? why should they lose family, loved ones and friends just because they disagree? My family life is hell because I have a wife who is even more zealous now than when I was in and thinks she holds the pious higher ground EVERY DAY. You tell me how Christian that is!
Why has the organization turned the following quote into a lie?
"No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family." Awake! 2009 July p.29 (p.28)
Concerned JW - I used to give Talk #73 - Acquiring a Heart of Wisdom. One of the main points of that talk is that LOVE and not PERFECTION is the mark of true Christians. John 13:35 is the proof text given. I devoted over 30 years of my life to the JW including 10 at Bethel and 20 as an MS and Elder. I spent countless hours helping people with their problems and ministering to the needs of the congregation. But when I needed them the most, my fellow Elders cut me loose. I was home from work on disability for depression 9 months and the elders made a meager 4 attempts to visit me. I was removed as a elder after a suicide attempt. And my wife requested separation and I obliged all of my family and friends cut me off. When I was in need I had to go to my disfellowshipped friends from back in the day. They GLADLY helped.
I do not expect perfection. I do expect appointed men to practice what they preach. I hold them to a higher standard. And they failed miserably. I wrote the Branch and received little comfort. I have not experienced the love JWs preach about. Only hypocrisy.
The following is from ConcernedJW
They have made mistakes but why would that stumble me? We are told that our condition means mistakes will happen but Jehovah will keep guiding through these mistakes.
We are followers of Jehovah whether we are anointed, elders, pioneers or publishers. And it is he who judges opur heart conditions. I think the anointed, governing body do a very good job considering how hard things are and how much perfection people expect from them.
There are simply no scriptures that say the spirit makes us or our organisation/congregation perfect at this time before Armageddon, it only guides us! Quite the contrary we are said to need refinement right upto the end. Revelations shows that the congregations will have difficulties as a whole. You are reading a new unbiblical set of standards into your expectations of Jehovah's people which is sad. The spirit is perfect but it isn't time to make us perfect yet so it will not have that effect. Fallibility under imperfection is our reality. So nitpicking over our usage of prophecies is like looking for the odd lost stitch in a perfectly usable Blanket.
This is my response: Concerned JW stick with you religion and keep warm & well fed
.... and quickly point out Catholics mistakes.
"I'm not talking about Catholics, I'm talking about your church leaders! Why did you try to change the subject?"
"Are you trying to drag your church leaders down to their level?"
"Are you trying to drag your church leaders up to their level?"
"Are you trying to drag their church leaders down to your level?"
Reminds me of a book title . . .
Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs, Bad Decisions, and Hurtful Acts: Carol Tavris, ...
Ironically, the book describes exactly why the GB are that way . . . and that they're TOTALLY HUMAN . . . hopelessly human . . . ie;Godless.
