A concerned JW wrote "mistakes will happen."

by InterestedOne 225 Replies latest jw friends

  • punkofnice

    Nah, that's not me. Confizzled JW

    The stimulating discussion bit:

    607 is where the bible chronology conflicts with one source of secular information so it is really an attack on the bible.

    What 'one source' do you refer to?

    I don't see disagreeing with 607 as an attack on the Bible, more a disagreement with the current understanding the watchtower commands you to have. If they change their mind on this date and they might have to, would they be seen as attacking the Bible or just a mistake one might ask?

    The Bible does not mention 607. The watchtower has bunged a hotch potch (oooh, good phrase), of stuff together as their current understanding.

    Randcam like I said is nitpicking, hearsay and making a something (which even if it is true) into a wrongdoing when it isn't.

    As I say you are entitled to your opinion. I don't share it but defend your right to it.


    14 "but as for you, continue in what you learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you have learned it."

    Sorry CJW, I don't read that as contextually 7 men (or however many at whatever time), currently in Brooklyn New York. It doesn't say that. It is past tense 'from whom you learned it.' 1st century Christians, even Jesus himself not some blokes who claim authority based on a vague interpretation of a parable in Matt 24:45.

    I still maintain that he who is ''faithful in least will be faithful in much'', rough gist of Luke 16:10. The watchtower organization isn't faithful in the least things.

    The polite chat bit:

    Any road up chuck.

    Are you in the UK and what is your role in the congregation? You didn't come back to me on that.

    If you are in my area in the UK I might know you from my having travelled around giving public talks. you sure you aint my Mum?

  • InterestedOne

    Concerned JW wrote:

    Interestedone Your question is clearly a loaded one.

    I don't see why my question is loaded. I will repeat it here:

    Concerned JW, if mistakes will happen, I was wondering what mistakes you feel the JW organization is currently making? Can you name even one?

    Concerned JW wrote:

    Asking me to identify mistakes is trying to make me accept the point I am contesting.

    I don't follow your logic. Asking you to identify at least one mistake they are currently making does not make you accept any point. I asked a simple question that follows from your acknowledgement that mistakes will happen. It was simply, given that mistakes will happen, what mistakes is the JW organization currently making? There is nothing else to read into the question.

    If you refuse to identify any mistakes the JW organization is currently making, I will be inclined to think that you believe the JW organization is not making any mistakes at this moment at all. Do you believe the organization is not currently making any mistakes? If so, that would mean you believe they are perfect. Since you have already said you do not believe they are perfect, please tell me what mistakes they are making. Can you identify even one?

    Concerned JW wrote:

    Please address my point rather than throw loaded questions at me.

    My understanding of your point is simply that men are not perfect. I get it. Now can you please answer my question? I'm asking if you can identify at least one mistake the JW organization is currently making. Can you identify at least one please?

    Concerned JW wrote:

    And again Punkofnice you like interestedone are trying to get me to defend mistakes you perceive are wrong.

    I am not asking you to defend anything. I am asking you to identify at least one mistake the JW organization is currently making, since they are not perfect. Can you do that?

  • the-illuminator81

    Too bad I wasn't alive yet in 1974 so I could not take up the brothers' excellent advice to sell off all my property in the short time remaining!

  • InterestedOne

    Concerned JW, I just looked up the meaning of the term "loaded question," and my question does not fit that description. A loaded question contains an assumption by the questioner that the respondent has not agreed to. The classic example is the question, "have you stopped beating your wife?" The question assumes the respondent beats his wife, but this assumption may not be warranted. The only time the question would be acceptable would be if the respondent had already admitted that he beats his wife.

    In my question, the assumption is that people make mistakes. You have also agreed to this assumption. Given that people make mistakes, it is not unreasonable for me to ask if the JW organization is currently making mistakes and if you can identify any of those mistakes. It is not a loaded question because we both agree with the assumption that people make mistakes.


    Having established that my question is not loaded, will you please provide an answer to my previous post?

  • sizemik

    What concerned JW does not and will not seem to accept . . . is that the WTS leadership does not and will not acknowledge and apologise for it's mistakes . . . they simply shift the blame . . . is that a "mistake" too? . . . I don't think so . . . seems more like duplicity and deceit in order to maintain an image. That's not Christian . . . or even "human" . . . it's just plain wrong.

    It's one thing to make mistakes . . . it's quite another to blame others and try to hide them!

  • SweetBabyCheezits
    Are these sort of nitpicking manufactured mistakes adequate reasons for leaving or staying away from Jehovah's people?

    I don't remember who to credit but someone onnce said the most damning information regarding the WTBTS was printed on its own presses. For example...

    "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end to the world," even announcing a specific date....?. Yet nothing happened. The "end" did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? ? Missing was the full measure of evidence required in fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that he was guiding and using them." ***Awake! 1968 Oct. 8 p.23 - A Time to Lift Up Your Head in Confident Hope***

    If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. .....all evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. ....as a young person you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. ***g69 5/22 15***

    Now let's see... after the 75 fiasco, their tone changed from condemning those who predicted the end... to commending them.

    Bible Students, known since 1931 as Jehovah’s Witnesses, also expected that the year 1925 would see the fulfillment of marvelous Bible prophecies. They surmised that at that time the earthly resurrection would begin, bringing back faithful men of old, such as Abraham, David, and Daniel. More recently, many Witnesses conjectured that events associated with the beginning of Christ’s Millennial Reign might start to take place in 1975. Their anticipation was based on the understanding that the seventh millennium of human history would begin then.
    These erroneous views did not mean that God’s promises were wrong, that he had made a mistake. By no means! The mistakes or misconceptions, as in the case of first-century Christians, were due to a failure to heed Jesus’ caution, ‘You do not know the time.’ The wrong conclusions were due, not to malice or to unfaithfulness to Christ, but to a fervent desire to realize the fulfillment of God’s promises in their own time. *** g95 6/22 8-9 Can You Trust God's Promises? ***

    In modern times such eagerness, commendable in itself, has led to attempts at setting dates for the desired liberation from the suffering and troubles that are the lot of persons throughout the earth. With the appearance of the book Life Everlasting—in Freedom of the Sons of God, and its comments as to how appropriate it would be for the millennial reign of Christ to parallel the seventh millennium of man’s existence, considerable expectation was aroused regarding the year 1975. There were statements made then, and thereafter, stressing that this was only a possibility. Unfortunately, however, along with such cautionary information, there were other statements published that implied that such realization of hopes by that year was more of a probability than a mere possibility.It is to be regretted that these latter statements apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones and contributed to a buildup of the expectation already initiated.*** w80 3/15 17-18 Choosing the Best Way of Life ***

    I find it interesting how passive sentence structure is used when making a half-ass admission of error (if you can call it that even) and yet bold, assertive words are used when the GB wants to pat itself on the back. Besty's "Mistakes Were Made" post applies perfectly.

    Regardless, their first statement still applies:

    Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that he was guiding and using them." ***Awake! 1968 Oct. 8 p.23 - A Time to Lift Up Your Head in Confident Hope***

  • NomadSoul

    Carl Sagan said it best:

    1. One prominent American religion confidently predicted that the world would end in 1914. Well, 1914 has come and gone, and - whole the events of that year were certainly of some importance - the world did not, at least so far as I can see, seem to have ended. There are at least three responses that an organized religion can make in the face of such a failed and fundamental prophecy. They could have said, Oh, did we say '1914'? So sorry, we meant '2014'. A slight error in calculation. Hope you weren't inconvinenced in any way. But they did not. They could have said, Well, the world would have ended, except we prayed very hard and interceded with God so He spared the Earth. But they did not. Instead, the did something much more ingenious. They announced that the world had in fact ended in 1914, and if the rest of us hadn't noticed, that was our lookout. It is astonishing in the fact of such transparent evasions that this religion has any adherents at all. But religions are tough. Either they make no contentions which are subject to disproof or they quickly redesign doctrine after disproof. The fact that religions can be so shamelessly dishonest, so contemptuous of the intelligence of their adherents, and still flourish does not speak very well for the tough- mindedness of the believers. But it does indicate, if a demonstration was needed, that near the core of the religious experience is something remarkably resistant to rational inquiry. [Carl Sagan, Broca's Brain]
  • discreetslave

    Concerned JW said"Please look at verse 14 "but as for you, continue in what you learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you have learned it."

    So why do you preach to people who have already learned & are convinced of what they believe re the Bible?

    When Paul said this he was speaking of himself & others who taught the truth about Christ. JW's are just another religion who like others have good & bad, falsehood & truth. What makes JWs stand out is the damage they cause to people. JW are a small religion too small to have the problems it does and claim to be God's only means of salvation. By your fruits you will know them Jesus said. The feelings of hurt & betrayal on this board is but a small sample of the rotten fruit the WBTS has produced. You called the information I sent to you ex-jw fodder. That's the pot calling the kettle black.

    The damage that was caused us & our families is too serious to say mistakes will happen. Yes humans are imperfect but your Governing Body & it's slave never admit to their own mistakes. They put themselves on a pedesatal and expect JW's to eat the crap that falls. I want to be nice to you sincerely want to help you know what a real relationship with God is like. This is not the time for you. You are not ready and I doubt you ever will be.

    I don't agree with everything on this forum but that's life. We agree to disagree. That's what makes humans different. Yes many here no longer believe in God but that's their right. Just as it is yours to continue with a cancer of a religion. My belief in God in no way can tolerate any religion that so blasphemes his name.

    If you are on this board solely to preach JW fodder, you are wasting your time. If you are here to count field service time then shame on you. If you are a true blue JW shame on you because your masters in Brooklyn have told you to stay away from us.


    If I'm out of line I apologize to the board but this guy is getting on my nerves.

  • sizemik


    When a non-JW "prophet" points to a date and is wrong, it's evidence that God's truth and guidance is missing

    When the JW "prophet" points to a date and is wrong, it's evdence of their fervent desire for the fulfilment of god's promises.

    DUPLICITY . . . plain and simple.

    Even a child could see it.

  • Nickolas

    I confess to suppressing an urge to rage and weep when I read posts the likes of CJW's. He cannot see. He cannot see. He cannot see. He cannot see. There is nothing whatsoever you can do to make him see, because he cannot see. Give it up, people. You are wasting your words and your time. The sad thing about being in a cult is you don't know you're in a cult. You're just insulted by the observation and you respond with predictable, blind believing umbrage.

    1975 comes up so often and is either ignored or dismissed, just like it was back in 1976. I was there. The meetings and assemblies in 1975 were electric with anticipation. The excitement was palpable. Real. There was no stern admonishment not to run ahead of Jehovah, there was enthusiastic endorsement of people who had sold their homes and quit their jobs to go pioneering full time. I was there. I saw it with my own eyes, heard it with my own ears. It happened. And then the recriminations against the rank and file happened. Our fault. Yeah? Goodbye.

    Concerned JW, why don't you just leave? You don't belong here, anyway. It's a disfellowshipping offence for a Jehovah's Witness to be here. You do realise that, don't you? Or is it you've made a conscious decision to go against the direct orders of the Governing Body? Be careful. You can't tell anybody back at the Kingdom Hall about it because if you do you will be disfellowshipped and you will be shunned. You may perceive yourself as some sort of Watchtower ninja-guerilla but your actions are not sanctioned and when you are inevitably shredded to ribbons by the people in here who know the truth about The Truth and perhaps let it slip someday to some other zealot what you've been up to you expose yourself to a judicial committee hearing at which you will be expected to grovel and beg forgiveness and then maybe still kicked out the door.

    Either open your eyes or leave.

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