by Reality79 164 Replies latest jw friends
Well Krett,
The WTS claim they base everything on the Bible, they also claim that they have the " truth "
truth does not change or needs to be adjusted, it's rock solid, it's foundation is firm
the WTS stands on shifting sand, all the things they have claimed in the past, are no longer
valid to them. unlike the words in the Bible
" I wonder how many things you have claimed in your life? Too bad we dont have it recorded, published,"
Too bad ain't it only a fool would lead a trail to his own capture
Ole Wuz ain't never made a claim she had to prove
I'm quite certain there are old writings in old books that says you have to follow them and that have been scanned on this forum in different places, that they speak as God's channel, and no one else does... as well as a new article stating the same. I think that is very clear, in writing and in teaching. But regardless, as Wasblind said... you only have to claim it once.
Also, please dont be under the misconception that JW's are alone in regards to pushing thier dogma through threats of eternal destruction.
That is a central tenent to Christian faith.
Oh, I'm not under that misconception at all... though I would say it is central to some denominations and not others. It isn't JW's vs. the rest of Christianity, as they like to claim. JW's are just another sect of Christianity, albeit an extremely high controlling sect - which is what gives them their feeling of a cult. There are rules for absolutely everything, many not even biblical, and if those rules are not followed, then df'ing and utter loss of family can and often does occur. Why? Because they are not following God's organization, and are "therefore", not following God.
But lets talk for a moment about df'ing. As far as I know, only cults cut their members out of their lives completely. JW's; Scientologists; Mormons (I think); Westboro Baptists; etc. So for many it isn't about Armageddon or hellfire... but rather about losing their families to an organization that claims to speak for God.
Catholics might sometimes ex-communicate from their faith, but not from contact and life (unless an individual chooses to go that route on their own, but it is not asked of them nor mandatory)
Lastly, how do you feel about all the ex-JW's and Christians saying one must agree with their particular dogma (which usually consists of getting out of JW's as fast as you can) to attain salvation?
I disagree with them 100%. Adherence to dogma does not save. Christ saves. And what special knowledge does one group of men have over another group of men?
How much time have non-JW's spent trying to convert JW's to the "real Jesus"....To partake of the emblems....To discuss the Trinity....
Not very much as far as I know, though I'm sure it happens. They more just want their families freed from the WTS... often to whatever path they choose.
Make no mistake about it, if the extremist ex-JW's had the organizational structure to push thier dogma, they would do it...
What dogma? I've been on this board for a year. I don't know of any dogma that ex-jws push. They're not organized because they all have different views of life and faith.
Tammy
Especially when you have an army of dedicated extremists combing through everything said for the last one hundred years..
I love how pointing out that claims to be able to predict the future in God's name by using their own publications is now their standard for "extremism". What a laughable bunch of wingnuts.
And as if you have look back 100 years. Just look back to the 80's when they said before the century was over that God would conclude this system of things.
I wonder how many things you have claimed in your life? Too bad we dont have it recorded, published, and then thrown to a group who makes their ministry into a nit-picking party.
Since wasblind isn't claiming to be speaking on God's behalf and leading 7 million people, it hardly rises to the same standard. (Plus, you can always look at all of was' posts on the forum and start doing the same thing yourself, but that would take intellectual work, something you apologists abhor).
Hello there EP,
I just love kretts, she make us apostates look really good
Revised definition of apostate: People who found out the real truth about the "truth"
If you flip the card that says, "Why does God permit all this suffering." It suggests you say, "Because hates people."
Hello there Flyin'
how you doin' this mornin'
TEC I'm quite certain there are old writings in old books that says you have to follow them and that have been scanned on this forum in different places, that they speak as God's channel, and no one else does... REPLY This claim they make is no different than the claim most Christians make. Why are JW's held to a different standard? Because they ahve something most individual Christians dont have. An infrastructure to enforce thier dogma. BORn AGAINS claim to have a special knowledge, and claim GOD works through them. How is that different (other than what I already posted) than what the WTS claims? TEC as well as a new article stating the same. I think that is very clear, in writing and in teaching. But regardless, as Wasblind said... you only have to claim it once. REPLY Yet when a BORn AGAIN claims they have special insight they arent held to the same standard the JW's are held to? Is that intellectually honest? TEC Also, please dont be under the misconception that JW's are alone in regards to pushing thier dogma through threats of eternal destruction. REPLY YAY! Someone isnt so blinded by thier own hatred for Group _____________ to see outside of the confines of thier own experiences! TEC That is a central tenent to Christian faith. REPLY Captured pretty well in John 3:36. John 14:6, and 1 John 5:11-13...But only the JW's are castigated for making these claims. Why is that? TEC Oh, I'm not under that misconception at all... though I would say it is central to some denominations and not others. It isn't JW's vs. the rest of Christianity, as they like to claim. REPLY Us against them is a great rallying tool and a wonderful motivator. It has been used by many throughout history and will continue to be used. TEC JW's are just another sect of Christianity, albeit an extremely high controlling sect - which is what gives them their feeling of a cult. REPLy AGREED TEC There are rules for absolutely everything, many not even biblical, and if those rules are not followed, then df'ing and utter loss of family can and often does occur. Why? Because they are not following God's organization, and are "therefore", not following God. REPLY UNity at all costs streamlines things and helps the WTS do its business. What is its business? Recruiting other JW's...You get someone like me in the room who wants to argue over biblical interpretation then we would never get anything actually accomplished. As far as DFING goes, I dont agree with it, but I find it disingenious for people to claim this came as a suprise when they decided to leave JW's. You answered almost 100 questions over three meetings with an elder, and you didnt know this would happen? You signed up for this group, and you agreed to go by the rules of this group. Harsh, but a reality.... TEC But lets talk for a moment about df'ing. As far as I know, only cults cut their members out of their lives completely. JW's; Scientologists; Mormons (I think); Westboro Baptists; etc. So for many it isn't about Armageddon or hellfire... but rather about losing their families to an organization that claims to speak for God. REPLY I have seen many people upset and shunning one another over disagreements about religion, politics, marriages, friends, money etc....Generally, when you have a different set of beliefs than a group has, you dont have much in common with them anymore, nor do they have much in common with you. If I dont have much in common with you, and I have a belief that is central to my identity that you dont agree with, I dont have much interest in you. It is a human thing, not just a JW thing. TEC Catholics might sometimes ex-communicate from their faith, but not from contact and life (unless an individual chooses to go that route on their own, but it is not asked of them nor mandatory) REPLY The Catholics and the JW base this "shunning" on the Bible. They, of course, put their own unique spin on it, but excommunication is discussed and encouraged in the Bible. TEC I disagree with them 100%. Adherence to dogma does not save. Christ saves. And what special knowledge does one group of men have over another group of men? REPLY AGREED OUT of time, I will finish responding when I get more time....
Hello there krett,
If you don't mind can you put that into paragraphs next time
makes for much better readin'. Or is this a ploy to get lost
in your own nonsense
WASBLIND, I dont know what happened to that post! It didnt look like that when I clicked "submit"...
BTW, if you choose to throw in condescencion, you need to realize it will be given back.
