You know, it's funny, a friend and fellow x-dub of mine said he went through an "angry atheist" phase. Which I find interesting... it seems that many atheists have a lot of anger at a deity they profess not to believe in. I went through an atheistic phase, but I wasn't angry, just depressed. Right now I'm pretty convinced there's a higher power/intelligence of some kind out there. I'm actually going through a lot more anger now as a quasi-believer, but I haven't sorted out this whole deity thing yet, so we'll see if circumstances improve as I attempt to get a better understanding of Him/Her/It.
Atheists - Do you ever talk to God?
I think the term "God" has been so corrupted and hijacked that it can not be rehabilitated. I do not believe in the Bible TradeMark God, at all.
My current beliefs are barely that, they are too abstract and I am poor at elucidating them. I believe that the universe is itself aware, very loosly like the "God" idea, but i do not think the universe is any way the bible god/allah/yahweh.
I sometimes talk outloud to myself and sometimes direct that dialoge outward, not expecting an audible reply -- and i don't get one. I think that is just thinking out loud maybe.
A self-aware universe is something along the lines of what I believe. Kinda sorta, in a Philip K. Dick kinda sorta way. Dick was actually a Christian, albeit a decidedly non-mainline one.
AK-Jeff, my comments to AGuest were not really derailments of the thread. My point was that I cried out to God for help when I did believe He would hear and help me. AGuest doesn't want to mean this, but her comments indicate that God sits idle and allows sincere believers to "hear" the wrong voice. If even believers can lead us to believe that God allows such crap, then we need to stop being angry with a God who clearly isn't there.
I learned that the God of the Old Testament was a real SOB, approving rape and slavery and genocide and the like. The Bible (and people like AGuest) tell us that the God of Jesus (or Jesus himself- whatever they want to believe) is not like that. Well, if He whispers his guidance so that in Christian lands his voice is not heard over the shills of false religion, and in non-Christian lands the whisper is virtually undetected, if he allows sincere people to be mis-guided and his supposed "true" believers want to say it's the fault of the sincere person for listening to the wrong voice, then I don't want to talk to him. I cannot be angry with such a fairytale anymore than a person is no longer angry with Santa Claus when he knows he didn't get what he wished for but not from Santa.
I guess it was a process of being angry with him for not answering, then finally getting to the point where I accept that the non-answer is from a non-entity. It is deeper than "belief" and "knowing." It is a growing process. An obscure bumper sticker says IF YOU ARE NOT OUTRAGED, YOU ARE NOT PAYING ATTENION. AK-Jeff, you are probably ready to shift your outrage from God to people. Not that you will go around being mad at everyone, but you will be outraged that religions, politicians, corporations, shysters, etc. take advantage of people and that people don't always wake up and do something about it.
First, I need to apologize to dear AK-Jeff (peace to you!)... for "derailing" his thread (again, sorry! )... and for addressing him when I should have been addressing dear OTWO (peace to you, as well, and my apologies to you, too!). I do not want to further distract here, so I am in a conundrum as to whether I should respond to dear OTWO's last comments... here or elsewhere.
Dear OTWO, I do have a response, but I need you and/or dear AK-Jeff to tell me whether I should respond elsewhere or here (or even at all). In the meantime, I will leave you with the following thought for now, though, if you will permit me:
The Holy One of Israel does not shout above others so that He is heard. Through His Word, Christ, He speaks "in low tones"... so that in order to hear Him, one may have to learn how to be STILL and QUIET... inside. Because it is from there that He speaks... to the man you are on the INSIDE. Perhaps if you quiet the din that is INSIDE you,dear one... which din can sometimes be even "louder" than what is on the outside... because the loudest is ANGER... it may be that YOU will hear the following, too:
“To YOU , O men, I am calling, and my voice is to the sons of men.O inexperienced ones, understand shrewdness; and YOU stupid ones, understand heart.Listen, for it is about the foremost things that I speak, and the opening of my lips is about uprightness. For my palate in low tones utters truth itself; and wickedness is something detestable to my lips.All the sayings of my mouth are in righteousness. Among them there is nothing twisted or crooked. All of them are straight to the discerning one, and upright to the ones finding knowledge. T AKE my discipline and not silver, and knowledge rather than choice gold. For wisdom is better than corals, and all other delights themselves cannot be made equal to it." Proverbs 8:4-11
I await your response and again, bid you peace!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
The most poignant scene in the movie Forest Gump is the one in which Lieutenant Dan screams from the mast of the boat at God. I feel like that at times. Why are you not real? Come here, strike me! Prove me wrong! Show up you coward. Save a starving child, stop a war, end Aids - kill me if you must, if that is what it takes to satisfy your vengeful spirit - but when so doing, make sure the world looks on. Provide solid evidence, indisputable proof that you are!
I feel your pain bro, in more ways that I can put into words.
I don't think that God respondes to anger though, at least not in the way WE want God to.
I recall in Bosnia, seeing the bodies in the graves, women, children, old men, shot to pieces...I wondered, inside, where God was.
One of my fellow soldiers wondered that out loud, very loud...
Its a pain that doesn't go away very easily, seeing what we do to each other...
I used to believe that my SOFA created me and had super powers. I use to pray to it and I felt that it actually listened to me and to all of my family members who also believe my SOFA has super powers.
The other day I discovered that my sofa although it gives me comfort when I feel tired is dead. Doesnt hear nor can talk back to me and does not have super powers..
After that day I realized is useless to talk to it. When Im lonely i might sit on it heck I might even have sex on it.. but definitely wont talk to it although it does make some weird noises.
Thank you SOFA
Yeah, but is your sofa a Lazyboy, that's the question !
@Ziddina - that was hilarious! I think I prefer your goddess!
To answer the original question - oh yes, I cry out Oh God but it's usually in reference to an activity (grins).
I am much more at an open universal energy that ties us all together, along the lines of what Agonus is saying. Leaning much more toward a Buddhist type of philosophy.
And although I think some people are well-intentioned...anyone who hears invisible people speaking to them most likely has some type of neurological or emotional issue, however kind they may be. However, until the invisible being tells them to pick up a weapon and start smiting others in the name of the "Lord", it's harmless and whatever floats your boat. On another level, it is also vaguely offensive to the billions of people who aren't christian yet still believe in the divine.
Anyway - no, I'm not angry anymore at anyone. Sad for those who build their lives around a harmful concept? Absolutely. But sad? No. My involvement is this cult has taught me many wonderful and valuable lessons. Putting the experience into perspective helps me be the best person I can possibly be - and I think there WAS a purpose to it all.