Atheists - Do you ever talk to God?

by AK - Jeff 94 Replies latest jw friends

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  AK - Jeff

  I scream out sometimes. Am I angry at a 'being' that I don't think exists? Or the embedded concept?

  The most poignant scene in the movie Forest Gump is the one in which Lieutenant Dan screams from the mast of the boat at God. I feel like that at times. Why are you not real? Come here, strike me! Prove me wrong! Show up you coward. Save a starving child, stop a war, end Aids - kill me if you must, if that is what it takes to satisfy your vengeful spirit - but when so doing, make sure the world looks on. Provide solid evidence, indisputable proof that you are!

  Of course 'He' won't - because 'He' is not real! It would be more likely that the tooth fairy would actually show up to swap a dollar for my grandson's tooth.

  Perhaps somewhere deep inside I still want God to exist - though I know it defies logic and rational thought.

  How can I hate him for allowing a cult to steal most of my life, when I understand that he is but the construct of man?

  I am a rational being. An atheist! There I said it. Still, conflict tears inside at times.

  I feel irrational at moments like these - perturbed, frustrated. I don't surrender to these thoughts - Do you? Do you sometimes tangent in this direction for a moment?

  Just curious - are these feeling unique? Or commonplace?

  Please - no efforts at conversion - no matter how subtle you think you are being. I have no doubt about my thinking in this respect - I will never turn to God in reality again in my life [well, never is a long time, but you get my drift]. I am also not seeking a pity-party here. Just legitimate interest in how those who have tossed aside the concept deal with bouts of anger - or do you even have them?

  Jeff
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  brizzzy

  I used to. Not anymore. But I went through a couple of years of anger/denial/bargaining (i.e., "I know you don't exist, but on the off chance that you do, could you please prove it by fixing my life, and then I promise I'll believe in you..." etc.)

  Not sure quite how I got over it. Lots of therapy and overanalyzing until I just eliminated it, I guess. I seem to have had a harder time eliminating the use of "god" in casual slang (i.e., "Oh my god", "I swear to god", "goddammit", etc.) I've just given up trying on that. I figure it doesn't count.

  P.S. I DO want to smack my sister and family when I get emails forwarded to me where they tell people that I "hate god" and am "rebelling against god" and am "lashing out against Jehovah personally". It's like, uh, no...I can't hate or lash out against somebody that I don't believe in.
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  startingover

  After coming to the conclusion such a being does not exist, to be honest I never felt the need to talk to him. I have however had to deal with the reality of death that has confronted me. After losing my parents 4 years ago, tears still come easily and sometimes I wonder if living in the fantasy world I used to live in would have made my situation different. I have no way of knowing at this point. But still, I have never felt the need to speak to god.
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  WalkTall

  When it hit me that God, Yahweh, Jehovah (whatever) and Satan were just the gods of the ancients Israelites just like all the other ancient cultures had their own versions, it hit me like a ton of bricks. It was like in a blink of an eye I knew that they were not real. Letting go of a belief in the evil god was easy, a relief really. But, the good one, the one I'd called Jehovah struck me with unimaginable grief. I still grieve for my lost believe in him. For the most part, I've accepted it, but there is still that small part of me that hopes there is someone, something, that set this all in motion. I guess I have a hard time letting it go because I worry and wonder how I would handle a crisis without having something stronger than myself to turn to.

  So, I suppose I am not a total atheist, not yet anyway, and as silly as it is to me now, I still find myself praying, talking. At times, when I feel alone, I miss him.
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  ziddina

  (Heh, heh....)

  Which one???

  Seriously, I don't talk to the Johnny-come-lately Middle Eastern male volcano 'god' anymore, but I cuss 'him' out every once in a while!!!

  Using almost the exact same words, coincidentally....

  Actually, I cuss out the stupidity that causes people to worship a Johnny-come-lately god, instead of just improving their lives on their own and learning more about the universe - "life, the universe, and everything!!"

  Zid
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  AGuest

  Dearest AK-Jeff... may you have peace!

  I realize your post is directed to atheists, but given what you've revealed here, may I also respond? Thank you! What am I about to share with you is not meant to sound trite, dismissive, or condescending. It is merely the truth, and I hope you can find it in yourself to listen... i.e., not just read the words, but hear what the words are trying to impart to you.

  James, the brother of my Lord, may have answered your query when he wrote the following (which says pretty much the same thing regardless of the Bible version that you use):

  "... if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep on asking God, for He gives generously to all and without reproaching; and it will be given him. But let him keep on asking in faith, not doubting at all, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. In fact, let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from God; he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways."

  Part of the problem is that many do not know what faith truly is. If you ask most people, they will say that it means believing in God. And they would be partially correct but not fully. As you may be aware, someone said that the demons believe. Faith, however, is, first, one's ASSURED EXPECTATION OF THE THING HOPED FOR.

  In this case, you appear to be hoping that the Most Holy One of Israel will reveal Himself to you; yet, you also say that you KNOW He won't. Does not your "knowledge" then, negate your hope? It does. It means that what you say you hope for you do NOT assuredly expect.

  Faith is also the EVIDENT DEMONSTRATION OF REALITY... though NOT beheld. What does this mean? It means that although perhaps you cannot see... hear... or feel the thing "hoped for" with your eyes, ears, or touch of flesh... that thing IS evidentially demonstrated. It is not "beheld," true... but it is EVIDENCED. How? By your SPIRIT... the man that you are... on the inside. The man on the inside of the vessel that is your body of flesh... that sees, hears, feels, etc.

  You see, God is not a being of flesh... but a spirit. As are you. A spirit being, residing in an physical vessel. You are NOT your body, but the "person" INSIDE your body. And it is with THAT person that you must first "exercise" faith... so as to see, hear, feel, etc., God... by seeing, hearing, feeling, etc., CHRIST... with that person. You cannot directly see, hear or feel God... not initially... without FIRST seeing, hearing, feeling Christ. Which you must transcend your flesh to do! And once you are able to see, hear, feel Christ... THEN you can "transcend" even further, to see, hear, feel God.

  The reason that you cannot do it with your flesh (physical body) first is because the PURPOSE for seeing, hearing, feeling Christ... and God... is one: for the building up of the Body of Christ, which is the noblest purpose for it (helping others is the second). Many, however, have absolutely no desire to do this "work" (i.e., serve in the "temple" of God), but rather, only want the experience. So that they can say they had it... use it to impress others... make money/fame... or for their own selfish desire ("I just want to know/see/hear/feel, so I can say it's true and He's real"). But I a must ask you... what is the BENEFIT of that? Your answer will be, of course, "So that I know."

  But, dear one, your knowing is of no value to anyone but you... you who don't even believe. However, the Most Holy One of Israel is not to be trifled with in that way. If He WERE to reveal Himself to you... there would need to be some BENEFIT in His doing so, a benefit MUCH greater than you. For example, a benefit to many others, those who would listen to you when you tell them of it... and perhaps seek Him also, through Christ, as a result. The benefit? The building up of the Body of Christ! More... are "added" to that Body, which is the temple of God.

  Why do you not ask for that? Because you are afraid, as most are: that the Most Holy One of Israel does in fact exist, but that knowing Him... having Him reveal Himself to you... might result in some debt to HIM, on your part. I.e., you MIGHT have to tell others, and then they'll think YOU a fool... as you thought such of others. And more than anything else in the world, you don't want to look like a fool... again, if ever.

  But truly, dear one, that really is what this is all about. That is what the love of God is... and what love FOR God is: foolishness. Him for us, and we for Him, through Christ. Because that is what LOVE is all about: being willing to look foolish, indeed BE a fool... for the one you love. TRUE love has no limit on such a thing: it believes all, bears all, hopes all... and never fails. EVEN... when the one doing the loving looks like a fool. Human parents do it for their children, just as the Most Holy One of Israel does it for His. Humans do it for a spouse, just as Christ DID it for us.

  So, I challenge YOU... just as you have challenged the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies: if you TRULY want Him to reveal Himself to you, put aside your pride... and your fear. Of appearing foolish... and perhaps of having to become His servant. Because those are the main things standing in your way. Thus, it is, first, your lack of faith that stands between you and the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies ("for those approaching must believe that He IS"), your approach, second (because you MUST approach, through Christ and, based on your post, you did not "enter" through that One), and perhaps, what was stated by Isaiah at Chapters 58:1-59:4.

  If you are serious, then, I offer you the following:

  1. First, read Isaiah 58:1-59:4

  2. Then, read "John" 14:1-16:33

  3. Go the One whose words were recorded in both instances, the One appointed by God as man's "mediator," Christ, and ask him to grant you entry before the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies

  4. Then go to God. Let Him know that you are coming THROUGH His Son... and that you want Him to send you HIS Truth

  5. And then EXERCISE FAITH in that hope... by allowing yourself to BELIEVE that such Truth WILL be sent to you

  6. And when that One arrives (John 14:6)... LISTEN TO HIM (Matthew 17:5). ASK him to identify himself, to reveal to you who he is... and then DON'T dismiss his words to you. Rather, allow yourself just one moment of "foolishness" and ANSWER him when he calls and then LISTEN to what he says to you. No one will know but you and him, unless you CHOOSE to reveal it, so what have you to lose? Nothing more than a moment of your time. What, however, have you to GAIN?

  7. Then DO what he directs you to do.

  Because THAT... is how you EXERCISE... your faith.

  May the undeserved kindness and mercy of my God and Father, the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, and the love and peace of His Son and Christ, my Lord, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit... be upon you... if you truly wish it. If so, may YOU hear the words of that One when he and his Bride say to YOU:

  "Come! Take 'life's water'... the holy spirit of God... which spirit is poured out from the innermost parts of the His Son... the Tree of Life and Rock-Mass from which all those who wish to be "cured" MUST eat and drink... free!"

  YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA
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  ZeusRocks

  It takes time to get passed it. You are right, god is an embedded concept. Most people are indoctrinated from birth to believe in a god, whether christian, islam, hindu, whatever, it becomes as natural as breathing. Once you're free from indoctrination, it's quite normal to go through a grieving process as such and be angry about the part of your life that has been wasted believing in nonsense and viewing the world that way. It doesn't help either that most of us are surrounded by people stuck with the delusion of a god, so we have the reminder of what we were, right there in front of us a lot of the time and then frustration can build up where you ask for proof to either prove you wrong or prove the beliefs of millions right.

  It's funny though, it's usually only people that have come out of indoctrination that goes through this. There are many many people who were never indoctrinated to believe in god, so they never go through any of this kind of stuff. Remember, we aren't born believing in a god, we're not given the choice by our family, it's just heaped onto us before we have the skills to recognise what's true and what's bullcrap.

  I personally only went through this in the early stage when I was still researching. Be thankful though that you've been able to start thinking rationally as most people that have been indoctrinated never get there when it comes to a god or the bible, or whatever their "holy" book is, as has been seen time and time again on this site.

  I don't think you're going crazy. Part of it is possibly the reality that you're living in a world where a lot of people still believe in invisible beings without any real reason to.
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  AK - Jeff

  AGuest - let me first of all tell you that I appreciate your kindness. Let me follow that statement with brutal honesty: I do not believe in fairy tales, invisible people living in another 'realm', gods that require 'faith' before they can be proven to be real. In fact; if god were real, any god, would it not display wondrous kindness to reveal himself to all mankind, get all the cards on the table? Yet your god, and the gods of all other religious delusionalist, hide themselves, only revealed by a massively contradictory Holy Writ and anecdotal claims of personal experience.

  Even the keynote words that describe your attachment to your god of choice are revealing: faith and belief. Both words carry the idea that obvious proof does not present itself, that the proof is within the person. Of course. So convenient for god to hide only within those who believe in him. Wouldn't it be odd if 'gravity' did such a thing? Or electricity? Only those with 'faith' would gain the benefits? Why is god not interested in helping all people? Electricity and gravity are obvious, can be demonstrated. It is not a matter of faith to know that one can benefit or be harmed by those forces. I do not have to 'believe' in those forces to be affected by them demonstrably.

  If I provided 'evidence' of the existence of gnomes, a book that explained them written thousands of years ago, and lived by the 'rules' they wrote in that book, prayed for them to help me, told others that I had communion with them, I would be considered odd! If I further expected others to buy into their existence, based on anecdotal proof and the 'Gnome and Fairy Guidebook', and that we should accept that our sins will be washed away because that book tells us so, preached it from church-top, I would be locked away and the key tossed!

  Yet - this is precisely what Christians do. They believe in a large Gnome, living where no one else can see him, who provides only for those who can see him by faith.

  My attempts to 'talk' to God are acts of anger as I seek to end this fantasy in my mind that gripped me for most of my life. Not any belief that he would actually appear - for 'he' is but a fantasy.

  ZeusRocks, Ziddina, WalkTall, StartingOver, Brizzy - precisely. Thank you.
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  THE GLADIATOR

  No Jeff that would make me insane. Though I do talk to myself knowing that I am listening.

  I understand the anger and disappointment you feel. Life without faith can seem rather pointless.

  Many years ago I used to read Frank Yerby's books. I was fascinated by his railing against a god that he did not believe in. He concluded that we struggle against a blind fate; but if god is fate or chance is indifferent to man's desires or actions, the individuals struggle is ultimately with him or herself.

  He also decided that we became true adults when we accepted our situation as humans and resigned ourselves to the inevitability of death.

  I envy people who are able to sustain a faith and believe that there is more to life that the present. I enjoy life but knowing that it will one day end, it might be better if I did not enjoy living.
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  OnTheWayOut

  A Guest:

  "... if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep on asking God, for He gives generously to all and without reproaching; and it will be given him. But let him keep on asking in faith, not doubting at all, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. In fact, let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from God; he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways."

  The Bible provides an excuse for reality. When doubters ask God, they don't ask in faith. They ask in doubt. So God doesn't answer them. Sorry, I don't buy that anymore. Children ask Santa Claus, in their innocence, for toys or for Daddy to come home. While they are innocent, they may continue to have faith, even when Daddy doesn't come home. They may assume their request was not the right thing. But sooner or later, they lose that innocence and stop believing in Santa Claus, whether or not they keep getting what they asked for.

  Your method of approaching God is to humbly approach and believe that He will answer. That's the way I wound up in a dangerous mind-control cult. That's a sure way to look for little "signs" of God's answers and assume that coincidences and the kindness of others are "from God." That's an excellent interview at a JW assembly: "I prayed for direction and Jehovah's Witnesses knocked on my door that day."

  Jeff, I used to talk to God as you do. I used to ask him to show me the error of my way and the correct path. As Brizzzy answered, "Not anymore."