Worldly Shunning

by alice.in.wonderland 156 Replies latest jw experiences

sherah

It seems we have a communication problem. Are self proclaimed apostates anything other than a social irritant?
Yes, we do have a communication problem. The topic is "Wordly Shunning". Your first post on this extolls the virtues shunning by other faiths with the implication that it's cool for JW's shun based on the GB's interpretation of scripture.
You stated in the past that you are a JW. On this thread, you bragged about associating with DF'd family members. You freely associate with the DF'd members of this forum. Page 2 of this thread quotes your faith's position on dealing with DF'd persons. Everytime you post on a forum such as this or associate with DF'd family is in disobedience to your faith's 'adminstrators.' You are a hypocrite.
I can't even engage in an intelligent conversation without someone dumbing down the conversation. Quit being retarded.
I know the fustration you feel when people don't stay on topic. Now it's your turn to tell us how the practice of shunning does not apply to you.
Palimpsest

I like reading your posts because it saves me the hassle of having to Google ridiculous topics myself. You're doing all the work for me -- thanks!
tenyearsafter

AIW,
Where does the individual who may have been a sinner under the definition at 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 fall if they no longer practice the sins outlined therein but have not yet been reinstated (forgiven) by the BOE? Are they worthy of association by your interpretation? If your answer is yes, it would be in opposition to what the WTS teaches...and requires followers to adhere to. It sounds like your mother may fall in to that category...would the BOE approve of this association if they were made aware of it?
alice.in.wonderland

“Yes, we do have a communication problem. The topic is "Wordly Shunning". Your first post on this extolls the virtues shunning by other faiths with the implication that it's cool for JW's shun based on the GB's interpretation of scripture.

You stated in the past that you are a JW. On this thread, you bragged about associating with DF'd family members. You freely associate with the DF'd members of this forum. Page 2 of this thread quotes your faith's position on dealing with DF'd persons. Everytime you post on a forum such as this or associate with DF'd family is in disobedience to your faith's 'administrators.' You are a hypocrite.”
You're pointing the finger at me by drawing on a belief system that in effect brings judgment on yourself. I generally don't do that unless someone else starts the blame game.

Stop judging that you may not be judged; for with what judgment you are judging, you will be judged; and with the measure that you are measuring out, they will measure out to you. Matthew 7:1-2

Drawing on beliefs you reject yourself even makes less sense. Just because you reject something doesn't make you right.

http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth-32-390-Religion.aspx

The dominant forms of religion in our culture posit a personal god, a Supreme Being, who created the world, is omnipotent and omniscient, imposes moral duties on man, and expects worship. Those who accept this idea have the burden of showing why such a hypothesis is necessary. In this regard, Objectivists are atheists because the arguments for the existence of such a being are not sound. Objectivists reject the existence of God for the same reason they reject the existence of elves, leprechauns, and unicorns: because there is no credible evidence of such beings.

Objectivism regards reason as an absolute. It holds that all knowledge is based on the evidence of the senses. It holds that all beliefs, conclusions, and convictions must be established by logical methods of inquiry and tested by logical methods of verification. In short, it holds that the scientific approach applies to all areas of knowledge. Blind faith, by contrast, consists in belief not based on evidence, or based on such spurious forms of "evidence" as revelation and authority. Faith is essentially an arbitrary exercise of the mind, a willful credulity based on subjective emotions rather than objective evidence, a desire for certainty without the scrupulous cognitive effort required to achieve rational certainty. Faith cannot substitute for reason as a means of knowledge, nor can it supplement reason. Reason is incompatible with arbitrary procedures of any kind.

Objectivism holds that "spiritual values" can be defined in secular terms, and on that basis agrees that they are of vital importance to fulfillment and happiness. Spiritual values are those pertaining to the needs of human consciousness, arising from the human capacity for reason, creativity, free will, and self-awareness. These needs include self-esteem, love, art, and philosophy (a comprehensive view of existence), among others.

On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23

Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld. For by means of this the men of old times had witness borne to them. Hebrews 11:1-2

You can find evidence for God that meets the criteria of scientific evidence in Jehovah's Organization. You can't find this in any other religion, that's why many people don't believe God exists.
dgp

Well, I don't find any evidence of God in the Watchtower either, and that's not why I don't believe in God.
I think Alice is a skillfull poster, but a dishonest one. She is comparing "worldly shunning", meaning that worldlies won't talk to someone who becomes a Jehovah's witness, to "shunning under a formal system", which in her opinion comes from God. Next she goes on to say that she "associates" with her disfellowshipped grandmother.
Well, I am a worldly and, though I don't personally have that experience, I do know that the new converts are required to alienate and dump their friends. That is enough to show Alice is dishonest, because she knows that. It's not that the rest of the world shuns a person for becoming a witness; the witness is required to be "no part of this world". I think I have found a perfect way to scare witnesses away: suggesting that they become my friends, come to my home, watch movies with me and perhaps even come with me on a date. That would be the acid test. Would the witnesses pass it, Alice?
And then, the existence of a "formal system for shunning" doesn't mean shunning is human or correct. It is much worse. The pogroms weren't a formal system of killing Jews; the Nazis did have a very systematic approach to killing them, and that didn't make it correct.
And then she is quick to run for cover and say that she "associates" with her disfellowshipped mother or grandmother (it escapes me who it is now). Yeah. Do all witnesses do that? And, if they did associate, is that what their organization demands from them? Of course not.
I know that she is posting here for a reason. I doubt our posts, or particularly mine, will have any effect on her. But perhaps a worldly will read this and HE or SHE will not be duped.
Black Sheep

I think Alice is a skillfull poster, but a dishonest one.
There is no way she is skillful. Have a look at these:
Not only is there no wisdom in "apostasy," people seem to have left their brain at the Kingdom Hall when they left the building.
She openly admits that she no longer attends the Kingdom Hall herself. Where's your brain Alice? Still in the building?
You're pointing the finger at me by drawing on a belief system that in effect brings judgment on yourself. I generally don't do that unless someone else starts the blame game.
Have you got short term memory problems, Alice? You came here blaming other people on your first thread and have never stopped.
Stop judging that you may not be judged; for with what judgment you are judging, you will be judged; and with the measure that you are measuring out, they will measure out to you. Matthew 7:1-2
Oh, you have never done that here have you Alice? Well, not in the past 15.5 seconds anyway.
On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23
Not much of that fruit hanging off your branches here, Alice.
Grow another face and you'll be a Trinity.
You are ........ all of the things .......... that you pretend to despise.
The Watchtower did that to you. Admit it. Get some professional help and try showing some Christian qualities. love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control
Cheers
Chris
alice.in.wonderland

"Not only is there no wisdom in "apostasy," people seem to have left their brain at the Kingdom Hall when they left the building.
She openly admits that she no longer attends the Kingdom Hall herself. Where's your brain Alice? Still in the building?"
I attended the meeting today. None the less, not currently attending meetings does not constitute apostasy. Deliberately distorting Bible teachings (deliberate ignorance) when you know the truth does. It's somewhat interesting to challenge these arguments and set the record straight.
"Have you got short term memory problems, Alice? You came here blaming other people on your first thread and have never stopped."

Recap and read my first post: It's people here that immediately started picking at me and have resorted to passing judgment on me since my very first post. I don't use the internet in an attempt to convert anyone. There are some control freaks here that are very invasive and like to pry.
ziddina

Alice wrote: "If a person has no practical value to another person, dismiss them from your life. You didn't derive this point from reading this? I see people do this often out of selfish motives whether someone is family or not...."
How ironically amusing... That's the exact attitude the Watchtower Society has towards the vast majority of their members, as evidenced by their curt dismissal of so many older Bethel workers without any sort of provision for their enfeebled old age...
Zid
ziddina

Per Alice... "Quit being retarded...."
Oh, goody... Alice has run out of specious arguments and is resorting to childish name-calling...
"Not only is there no wisdom in "apostasy," ..." That would make the man who started the Jehovah's Witnesses, Charles Taze Russell, the most unwise of men, as he committed apostasy in order to start this religion that you claim to follow, albeit with much hypocrisy, stiff-necked independence, and stubborn resistance against implicitly following the directions of Jehovah's Chosen Organization led by the Divinely Inspired Governing Body...
Zid
Black Sheep

Recap and read my first post: It's people here that immediately started picking at me and have resorted to passing judgment on me since my very first post.
Absolute complete and utter rubbish.
Your first post was very civilised and was responded to in kind.
The thread didn't start to degenerate until page 4 when you described the forum as "... nothing but a cesspool of contamination."
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/186163/2/Ezekiel-29-12-Prophecy-of-the-Desolation-of-Egypt-for-40-years
Cheers
Chris

Worldly Shunning

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