The meeting did not go well.

by Danni 221 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  rhett

  Hey Joel, it wasn't a police investigation. I remember reading in one of Danni's earlier posts where she even told her supervisor that it was a personal thing and she was doing it on her own time.
  As for the way Danni and her partner acted, you two are great!!! I back up your actions 110%. So what's so bad about not being nice to assholes? Yeah yeah yeah, I know the elders are just doing what they're supposed to but regardless of what they're told they're the ones who actually have to carry out the actions. You can bitch and whine all you want about its not their fault but those assholes need to take responsibility for their own actions. I get sick and tired of hearing people talk about how they were mean or cruel to people when they were JW's and how they hate the WTS for making them be that way. I was just as much of jerk to others when I used to do what they told me to but I only blame myself for my actions. Stop whining for these men who are jerks and start believing in responsibility.

  I don't need to fight
  To prove I'm right
  I don't need to be forgiven.
• 

  JT

  Reborn 2002 says

  While I admire your efforts, only hard facts and evidence can bring them to their knees
  -------------

  While on the surface one would "Assume" that if you showed a person some facts or proof that would be all that is needed
  but sad to say the facts don't support your position

  one of the most interesting things i did when i first left was to read as to WHY PROOF AND EVIDENCE don't change the mind of the avg prson who is part of a High Control Group like wt and others

  it goes much deeper than just facts

  just a suggestion- you may want to do some reading on the matter because by realizing that facts and proof alone don't work

  then when one is confronted with jw the manner that one goes about dealing with jw are very different than just printing off alot of jw flip-flops and errors for they rarely work and there is a reason

  and by understanding the reason the technique in dealing with jw changes entirely for you and i

  just a thought

  james
• 

  detective

  Wow! Talk about taking a beating for daring to hold a dissenting view. Let's see, it's been insinuated that people who haven't fully agreed with Danni's approach are supporting elders, child molesters, the society and have little or no regard for victims. Well, if you don't like how she went about things there must be something wrong with YOU. You must be deficient, ruthless, evil or uncaring because you didn't step up with support for Danni's methods! Uh, sorry, but those types of responses are only intended to insult and belittle opposing opinions and those holding them. They are completely unfounded generalizations that do nothing but act as hurtful allegations in an attempt to quell dissent.
  I am not, nor have I ever supported the watchtower policies on pedophilia. I am not, nor will I ever support the blatant abuse of power that the society engages in. It outrages and saddens me in ways that I cannot even begin to convey.
  What I have taken issue with, as you will see if you read my responses to Danni in an earlier thread, is that an abuse of power is an abuse of power. I certainly despise it as the Watchtower does it, and I don't think it should be answered with additional abuses of power even if they are well meaning. Should I applaud Danni's throwing around of her police weight when on unofficial business that will only make a minute handful of people squirmand not even get close to touching the broader concern? Honestly, it doesn't seem to have accomplished much. I asked Danni what her goals were and she either didn't have any specific goals or chose not to explain them. What I am concerned with is that Danni, though invited to this meeting, was treated with substantially more interest than if she were any other interested party simply because she was a police officer. It looks to me as if she and her partner used this to their advantage. And why? Danni is NOT investigating a specific crime relevent to that specific congregation. How many times do we have to go over this point? She wasn't on the job, she was just acting like she was on the job. It is my opinion that Danni did not effectively convey her CIVILIAN interest and instead blurred the line between personal and professional interest in such a manner that she evoked a substantially emotional, legalistic and defensive response. Taking advantage of your authority when in a civilian capacity, is not something I can applaud, even if in this particular case I support the basic cause. Does anyone want to correct me in my belief that none of this hubballoo would have transpired if she and Darryl were plumbers? And what did all this do for the larger issue?
  Instead, she jeopardized her own job. She brought in Bill Bowen's name and possibly risked some damaging recourse for him. Hopefully that's not the case. She undermined the professionalism of her police department and this resulted in a verbal threat of a lawsuit. All this for a few minutes of come-uppance that in all liklihood that acheived little or nothing for the larger issue. All this because she didn't review her goals and de-escalate the situation long before she walked into the meeting.
  I don't doubt that she is a decent enough person, nor a caring person. I believe she is. I also believe that in the larger sense, she accomplished very little and possibly risked a great deal more because she became so emotionally involved that she wasn't able to really assess the situation and the bigger picture. I believe her emotions clouded her judgement and clouded her ability to distinguish between an on the job assignment and a personal vendetta. That's potential fuel for serious abuses and corruption, I can't ignore that simply because I too, am horrified by what I've learned of the Watchtower's policies. I'm not saying that Danni is corrupt, nor do I believe she will be corrupt at some point in the future. But I believe she's acting like a loose cannon and it will only work to her detriment and possibly to the detriment of others. There's every reason to be pissed about what she's learned of their policies so far, but being too reactionary isn't going to help in the long run. This problem is bigger than uniformed police officer Danni. Without a specific crime, investigation into would need to be done at a higher or at the very least, interdepartmental or interstate/federal cooperational level to get to the root of the problem which is in Brooklyn. Or, you skewer them in the press.

  Danni, the best thing you can do is to weigh whether or not you can do more good as a police officer or as a six-dollar an hour security guard- which is what you'll be if you push the wrong buttons with those legal freaks in Brooklyn. All because of these careless methods you've been using. You are walking a fine line with a lawsuit loving group. I'm just encouraging you to refrain from jeopardizing yourself and others by being EXTRA CAUTIOUS in your dealings with members of this group.
  To clarify, I'm glad Danni's incensed but I don't care for her methods. I guess in some peoples opinion's that makes me something akin to a child molester or watchtower sympathizer. I can't help it if someone wants to view me that way but that's completely off base, unfair and cruel.
• 

  MadApostate

  TeeJay, MindChild, and Detective:

  Your groveling and kowtowing is duly noted, but what is it about "100% supportive" that you don't understand?

  "ModApostate"
• 

  rhett

  Hey Yadirf, you're always talking about how you're such a wonderful Christian and defending JW's. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't they believe that Jehovah will take care of everything and they should stay out of the courts and whatnot especially if it would bring reproach on the WTS? Well I would think that calling the mayor and the supervisors would probally make a big deal would it not? Besides, coming from another thread where I asked you repeatedly and you kept dodging my answeres, how are you showing that wonderful christian love you're so supposed to be so full of?

  I don't need to fight
  To prove I'm right
  I don't need to be forgiven.
• 

  Mindchild

  SixofNine was addressing "clueless people" with her post but somehow I got the idea she was talking to me so please bear with me as I make a response.

  Okay 6/9 what's wrong with this picture? (notice only minor word changes)

  A person became interested in what JW's believe via a personal interest in one of JW's.

  She ck'd it out, utilizing both the resources provided by the person she was interested in, and the internet.

  She was invited to come to the KH to meet with elders when a couple visited her at her door and were put off by her questions. Those questions were long on some of the more outrageous tenets and actions of JWism, and short on "is god really part of a trinity?" etc.

  The meeting did not go well.

  The interested person happens to be a dentist.

  Her being a dentist colored the way the JW's treated her, and no doubt, the way she treated them.

  So what?

  Shit happens.

  Okay...if things had been worded this way...well yeah, shit happens. But as she was an officer of the law and so was her partner, there was a much higher standard required of their conduct. There is also a much more serious psychological overtones. If you don't like a dentist, well hell find another one. If you think you are going to get your ass thrown in jail or be publically humilated by a cop, even if they are not wearing their uniform...that is a whole different story.

  How would you feel if the shoes were on the other foot? Would you say enjoy a cop coming up and questioning you while you were out on a dinner date? Asking you where you were at such and such a time, and if you did this or did that? Perhaps you don't have a clue as to how many people feel about being confronted by police officers. I hate it personally, even though I didn't do a damn thing wrong. Anyway...this is where the problem is, not the fact that anyone just called them on something and got in a big arguement...it was the fact they were cops.

  Borgfree...thanks for your response. I really don't have any problem with the examples you gave of confronting the Witnesses. I know all too well your frustration as I lost my whole family over the Borg. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that in the very real anger that ex-dubs have, it is easy for them to keep pushing the envelope and step over the line in getting revenge. Two wrongs don't really make a right as you know, but when you are hurt sometimes it just seems so damn tempting to hurt in return.

  I just think as a community of people who really influence each other on this site and other sites, we need to be very careful in what we encourage someone to do or do ourselves. Some Witnesses when they leave are seriously mentally unstable and can easily be influenced to go off the deep end. I wouldn't want that on my shoulders.

  TR, regardless of the exact wording of this story...it should be a wakeup call for us. I think we are justified in confronting the WTS but we also need some restraint as well. Where that line is drawn is an important one.

  Skipper
• 

  Danni

  Detctive you are just a lot of talk. You want to put me down for what I did but, that's all you will do. You won't go anywhere to make a difference. you will come here everyday and complain about those who don't follow your instructions on how things should be handled. I am still waiting for you march your ass over there and do something. I will come back to read about how it worked out. You can also tell me who was abusing the power. BTW: I didn't put Mr.Bowen's name out there, I said, silentlambs and they ran with it. All I asked him, was if he knew the man , and his name, he said, yes he knows him, but wouldn't give his name.

  MindChild. As far as you using an example about bullets flying around in a crowd and innocent people being hit, let's keep one thing in mind, we (Darryl,and I) were not the ones who took the fight in the crowd they did that, it was there fault if their own family members were hit by flying bullets. All I did was get the situation back under control and end the meeting. You were not there. I would like to see you too do a better job. I have no problem with that, infact I encourage it.

  Teejay , I don't have anything else to say to you about it.

  joelbear

  A cop that would publicize notes from a police report regarding an investigation into child molestation and brag about his/her bravado to a group of citizens?

  There was no bragging I told the others what happened if you view that as bragging that's on you... This was personal I can tell it if I want. If there was going to be a court case on this I would have to wait until the trail was finished before I would even be allowed to talk on it.
• 

  GoldDustWoman

  Ok. I would like to go on record that I agree with Mindchild.

  I have a few questions for Danni:

  What is your goal going to the KH and confronting them with your info? Is it to put them on notice that you are going to be keeping an eye on them? Or that you are getting a kick out of watching them squirm?

  I realize you say you were invited. Ok, fine. However, you do seem to be putting forth much time, and effort, and I am very curious to exactly what it is you are trying to accomplish? If it is to get straight answers to your questions, you have been shown that mission is futile. If it is merely to share with us your experience confronting the elders with embarrassing information, consider your objective achieved.

  GDW
• 

  joelbear

  WHEN WILL THE CIRCLE BREAK?
  LOYALTY TO THE ORGANIZATION IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE TRUTH.

  When will the circle break?

  Total Denunciation of the organization is more important than the truth.

  The board inches closer every day to simply being an unthinking mob.

  This is going to come back and haunt you.

  I do not believe a body of elders would ever invite an individual to a Kingdom Hall during a meeting time to discuss an issue as sensitive as this.

  I do not believe it.

  Joel
• 

  JT

  Detective

  says:

  I'm glad Danni's incensed but I don't care for her methods
  _______________

  I agree with you 110%

  the goal is noble but the methods show just how litte she and sad to say so many of us here on the site really understand the WT

  i constantly see folks arguing with the little 16 yr old girl behind the counter at McDonalds because they are using Cat and Dog meat-

  while the person who understand the larger picture is filing his lawsuit in court against HOMEOFFICE for switching beef with dog and cat meat to save money

  i find it so sad that so many really don't understand that when it comes to issues of this magnatude the local elders are no more than WT Flunkies-

  this is why wt has been so successful in my view most folks go after the wrong people on the totem pole

  all the instructions to elders in the last 10yrs has been such that the wt is making sure that they can stay clear of any decision that elers make and yet at the same time elders must follow thier guidelines, instructions, memos , letters and other direction to the TEE

  yet when the Sh!t hits the fan the elders will take the wrap

  and to see folk focus so much attention on as i stated 3 guys who hand out cheese on toasted crackers at Walmart tells me that so many miss the point

  it is as if any thing as long as it is against wt is wonderful and that is what the boys at the big house wants and so many of you and i love you all continue to play right into their hands

  if anything resulted from that meeting is a stronger feeling among those elders to resolve to remain ever more loyal to the org

  i recall elders saying that would prefer to serve on an Apostasy case as to a sex case

  reason being they felt like they were going up directly AGAINST AN AGENT OF SATAN WHILE THEY REP JAH-

  and with that being the mindset of most jw when confronted with apostate veiws and thoughts you are fighting a losing battle unless you use better techniques

  while here methods may bring some fuzzy feeling - i really have to wonder how much in the long run and the big picture did it help

  just my 2

  james