The meeting did not go well.

by Danni 221 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  SixofNine

  Whoa whoa whoa Joel.

  Go take a look at the context here.

  Danni is an individual.

  EVERYONE. take another look! Danni is AN INDIVIDUAL.

  She took a course of action. As an individual.

  She just happens to be an individual in a line of work that doesn't allow her to be automatically intimidated in an uncomfortable situation. That fact changes the dynamics in a big way. It does not change the relevance of Danni the individual's questions about Jehovahs Witnesses.

  She put some JW's on the spot about things they are indirectly guilty of. All witnesses are indirectly guilty, because they are not standing up and fixing the problems in their house. We used to be just like them. We left. We probably would have gotten red faced and argumentative had it been us in the meeting a few years ago.

  Does Danni know all the nuances of being a JW? No. Does she have a tight grasp on the pedophile issue? NO. How could she in a few short days? Does she know enough to know that somethings are seriously wrong with the organization, and that those wrongs hurt people? Yes.

  Mindchild, instead of replacing off duty "cop" with "dentist", replace "cop" with "lawyer".

  No abuse of power there, same exact reaction from the witnesses. Possibly even more overblown.
• 

  OUTLAW

  Hey teejay,like I said your a good guy!..>>>Skipper your right a line has to be drawn.I won`t put up with pediphiles or their sympathizers for 1 second.Sitting on the fence with friday is no place to be...OUTLAW
• 

  Mindchild

  Outlaw, put down that shotgun for a minute! lol

  Who said anything about about me sympathizing with pedophiles? It is the organizational policy we are talking about here. If there are any suspects they deserve to be put away where they won't hurt anyone. But what are you going to do? Spray each KH will gunfire and hope you hit a few by chance? Not saying you are implying this at all.

  We just need a more effective way of doing the right thing. Draw the line where it should be.

  Skipper
• 

  OUTLAW

  HA-HA!Good morning from "The Great White North" Skipper,I figured you`d read my post sooner or later.Skipper,Danni was called on,at her home,she was invited to the hall to ask questions.They knew she was a cop and they knew she was going ask questions.Do you think they should have given her a list of questions to ask?(LOL)She asked questions that interested her.So it should be,as she was INVITED TO DO SO.They never intended for this to be a straight forward meeting.Why else would they have "secret agent man" on the speaker phone.They tried blowing a lot of smoke and got cut off at the pass everytime.(Danni`s too smart for that shit)When Danni caught them in their own bullshit they got upset,too bad.You can`t ask people to come visit,set them up,and then get pissed when things don`t go your way.Danni did the right thing,Don`t try to tie the hands of people trying to do whats right...OUTLAW
• 

  detective

  Here we go again with the blanket statements...
  From Danni: "Detctive you are just a lot of talk. You want to put me down for what I did but, that's all you will do. You won't go anywhere to make a difference. you will come here everyday and complain about those who don't follow your instructions on how things should be handled. I am still waiting for you march your ass over there and do something."

  Uh, how the hell would you know what efforts I have or have not put in on this or any other issue? Let's be honest, here. You have no idea what contributions I have or haven't made. You know little to nothing about me. Regardless, this is not about me. This is about the situation you described. But unless I agree with how things went off in your situation, then according to you I'm supporting the society or never doing anything to help or just otherwise useless and evil. You'll notice that I've criticized your ACTIONS relating to this incident. I have not implied anything beyond it pertaining to your character. At least, I haven't intentionally done so, correct me if I'm wrong. And yet, you have offered a variety of comments intended to belittle me, despite the fact that, with one exception, I've hardly demonstrated even mild annoyance towards you. It would be helpful if you would stop trying to paint everyone who doesn't immediately agree with your methods with such broad, and more than a little bit insulting brush strokes.

  At this point I should probably give up speaking with you as it's not simply that you don't agree with me that's the problem, it's that you don't want to hear what I'm saying. And when you speak to me, all I'm hearing is condemnation and contempt towards me, mixed with the very emotion that, while I admire it, I feel it contributed to your misdirected actions. I've tried to praise your intentions while not really appreciating your methods but all I get is silly little insults back from you. I tend to wonder if this is how you conduct your police business? Broad generalizations, condemning though uninformed insults? Is this the person that walked into that meeting? Or did you add a badge and an attitude to the mix? No offense, but that doesn't strike me as a good combination and I'm not entirely sure I support that approach. Look, I really hope that's not the case. I could go on about this and a few other concerns but I think it's pretty pointless at the moment.

  I see alot of victims related to the organization. And I see victims who are likely to turn around into victimizers. Not just on the sexual abuse issue either, but in a variety of areas. That's what I see. I don't know how to fix it. I just know it's damn complex. I hope you understand that much.

  Good luck with whatever you do.
• 

  Pork Chop

  Some people are posting on this thread whose intellectual processes I respected in the past. I just can't belive you're swallowing this tripe. This whole story is so contrived it's pathetic. Are you so eager to hear something like this that you suspend the normal process of disbelief? Whoever wrote this clearly knows nothing of elders or how they work. This thing is as false as a three dollar bill.

  If you think the person carries so much as a cap pistol, I've got some land in Florida I'd like to sell you.
• 

  seven006

  I wrote a long recap of the whole issue but have decided not to post it. Those who see Danni and her partner as intimidating the elders will continue to see just that. Those who have a problem with police officers will continue to have just that. Those who try and make me feel uncomfortable for saying I love to watch the elders squirm, that's your problem.

  If you have not followed this entire subject from Danni's first post you might want to consider doing that. I do not wish to spend any more time recapping it. There is more to this whole issue than is posted on this board. Deal with that as you wish.

  Danni was warned by myself and a few others that she may find out more about the JW's than she had bargained for. She has indeed done that. She came here with a simple thought of finding out what made one particular JW man tick because she was interested in him. She found much much more.

  A woman in any other capacity or occupation would probably just walk away and write it off as a lesson learned. Danni did not. You can believe what ever you wish and make accusations all you want but one thing remains. Danni is appalled by the JW policy of hiding a crime. A crime that has little kids as victims. This does not mean that every congregation has this problem. This does not mean that this problem exists in the congregation that invited her to discuss the matter. All it means is there are criminal things involving a religion that she wanted to know a little more about. They invited her to discuss the matter and she did.

  She has not said that all JW's are criminals. She is not out to bring down the JW religion. She is not out to humiliate one particular congregation of JW's. She is not out to implicate any one JW elder. She is out to find out the truth about a policy that tries to make the JW religion look above reproach and that has ruined the lives of some pretty great people. I loved one of these victims who has had her life ruined and has suffered incredibly as a result of this JW policy and I hate the way the religion cares more about how they look than the psychological damage they do to victims of child molestation and rape. If somebody doesn't like that or understand it, tough shit!

  Those who support her efforts but do not agree with her methods could take a little time and put together a full plan of exactly what would be the correct method of exposing this issue and then get off your soap box and do it. If all you want to do is criticize how this has all come down then tell her exactly the right way to do it and get out from behind your computers and do it the right way yourselves.

  Ask yourself a few questions in the whole issue. What does Danni have to gain in this whole matter?
  What personal benefit does she derive from taking her own time to look into this matter? Is she jeopardizing her job to continue on with this? Why should she care about any of us or them?
  Some of you love to sit back and voice your opinions, but when it comes to doing something besides just posting on this board you turn off your computer and go watch Darma and Greg. This does not mean you are bad, stupid, bitchy, or just trying to get a little attention. It means you just may have had enough and you are tired of fighting the bullshit that has been laid upon you because you were once a JW.

  This is new to Danni. She genuinely cares about the victims of this policy. If you have a better way of helping those victims then tell her all about it. Then do something about it yourself. If you don't agree with her statements explain why without jumping all over her. If she makes an assumption based on her limited knowledge of the religion and this board cut her some slack and try to think how you would feel given the same circumstances that she was introduced to this matter.

  I will give Danni any support in anything she chooses to do to pursue this matter. I will kindly tell her if I think she has come to a wrong assumption. I will also applaud her efforts with the big picture in mind and not details that can be argued about and never resolved based on individual interpretations Anyone who has read any of my posts on this board know I am a very understanding person and I am not out for my own agenda. If I see something I see as wrong I respond. When someone points out something I am wrong in, I accept it, apologize for it, and thank them for pointing it out. I try to look for the right and the truth in any situation. This one is just a little personal to me.

  Take care
  Dave
• 

  CoolBreeze

  JT,
  You said that the local elders are powerless, that there is no value in confronting them about organisational issues. I beg to differ. The Borg has been legaly seperating themselves from local elder decisions for about the last 10 years, so they can not be held lible for any decisions the elders make, even though we all know all the shots are called in Brooklyn. This plausible deniability works in favor of those of us who want to destroy this mentaly diseased cult and release it's victims.

  Let's ay an elder is charged with acccessory to a crime, because he failed to report because there is only one witness. In court he tries to defend himself by saying that this is a doctrine beyond his control dictated by HQ in Brooklyn. The DA gets on the phone to Brooklyn's legal Dept. who assures him that ALL such decisions are made at the local level, and ALL responsibilities for said decision fall upon the elder in question.

  Meanwhile, back in the courtroom the elder is found guilty as an accessory after the fact, and Brooklyn escapes unharmed.

  As these outcomes become more common, how many elders are going to let the Borg hang them out to fry as scapegoat sacrifices for their sick and twisted doctrines. How long before the brothers start rethinking appointments as elders as something undesirable?

  Seperating themselves legaly from local congregations may save them finnacialy from lawsuits, it will bite them in the ass when local congregations refuse to enforce doctrine because they personaly will have to take responsibility for for any libilous situations they find themselves in. I have seen this happen already within the local congregations here.

  So, hang in there folks we don't have to destroy them, they are doing quite well on their own.

  Ciao,
  Anton
• 

  SixofNine

  Whoever wrote this clearly knows nothing of elders or how they work.

  Truer words were never spoken Pork Chop. One of the reasons this all sounds so plausable to me.
• 

  backout2nite

  It is so sad to see that so few of you see how wrong this was.
  Danni you were used, plain and simple. You were given a bunch
  of emotional information from people who want nothing better than
  to see the watchtower crumble for their own personal reasons.
  The big thing that keeps coming up is the fact that you were invited
  to the hall, but you didnt go there to question the beliefs you
  took it upon yourself to interigate three "janitors" on their
  sexaul misconduct of women and children.Being that you are an
  outsider, you did not acomplish anything by going there.