I have a serious problem
After sleeping on it I think I have changed my passive thought, on second thought why don't you b$#@h slap this elder in front of your son and show him the importance of protecting your family from predatory people and ideas.
You could even have an adult conversation with your driving age son and get his take on it all, you'd have a better idea of what is actually going on then.
Wifey dont like it or wont allow it? WTF?
GFG: the current Elders secret manual makes the legal claim, that a person who meets with a committee is ''...thus acknowledging the authority of the congregation.''
The problem with that is this: only the elders know this. The R&F Witnesses do not.
Join the Freemasons, Elks, or some other fraternal organization. Those guys have each others' back. Have a couple of them show up at Brother Douchbag's door with some 'words of advice.' That'll keep him looking over his shoulder, and get him to back the f off.
MNIONC: I texted this brother last night and said that we need to talk THIS WEEK. He texted that he would get back to me. We'll see what happens.
No, no, no!
You're still letting him control the frame.
YOU need to take control or you might lose your son.
Do you think we're kidding here?
You came here asking for advice. You've got dozens of people that has been through similar situations. For most of us it didn't work out well because we didn't know what to do. We're trying to help with our hard-won experience and you're not listening.
Tell that brother in no uncertain terms to stay away from your son and your wife. Do it!
No more "we'll see ..."
I agree with several of the post, BluesBrothers said to go to him at his home and talk with him face to face. Basically lay your law down in no uncertain terms in a prepared way, "using applicable scriptures or just referring to them" and in a calm manner if possible, I said, calm, not necessarily soft spoken wimpy calm, with sufficient strength to let him know you are serious.
Just remember that This guy is counting time with your son and is causing division in your house.
Why is someone else studying with your son? Someone other than the father studying with his children used to be looked down on by the elders in my congregation, because you, as his father, have the responsibility to train him spiritually.Maybe, you should say you are now taking the responsibility of training/studying with your son now and you don't need his help. Then conduct your own study with your content.
The deal with the car I think is very disrespectful to you and just stinks. That is like the pride of a father to help his children with their first car.
I think you can pull a restraining order or an order of protection without engaging a lawyer, but perhaps you should use the free first visit with a lawyer to see what can be done. Just mentioning to the man that you are contacting a lawyer and considering filing a restraining order/order of protection for stalking your minor underage son, should stop him in his tracks.
Also, if you are not able to talk with him, go to the COBE (old Presiding Overseer) and tell him to get this man to back off. That you are not comfortable with your son going to his house alone for hours on end without your supervision, (pediphile possibility) or that you feel that this "brother" has an interest in your wife, and that he needs to stop, wouldn't want adultery going on.
Ten years ago, I had family members roll over me like a steam roller. I wish now that I had NOT been so peaceable, and stood my ground. I thought at the time just to maintain peace, While they were fabricating all sorts of lies and carrying out a character assassination on me which was very successful. I finally left the city. But, if I could go back in time and redo, I wouldn't have been such an easy mark.
As a man and a husband, there are times that you have to "mount up" and defend your own, just like King David coming back to find another tribe had taken many of his wives and property, and he mounted up and went and kick some proverbial Butt. The account is below.
1 Samuel 30 New International Version (NIV)
David Destroys the Amalekites
30 David and his men reached Ziklag on the third day. Now the Amalekiteshad raided the Negev and Ziklag. They had attacked Ziklag and burned it, 2 and had taken captive the women and everyone else in it, both young and old. They killed none of them, but carried them off as they went on their way.
3 When David and his men reached Ziklag, they found it destroyed by fire and their wives and sons and daughters taken captive. 4 So David and his men weptaloud until they had no strength left to weep. 5 David’s two wives had been captured—Ahinoam of Jezreel and Abigail, the widow of Nabal of Carmel.6 David was greatly distressed because the men were talking of stoning him; each one was bitter in spirit because of his sons and daughters. But David found strength in the Lord his God.
7 Then David said to Abiathar the priest, the son of Ahimelek, “Bring me the ephod.” Abiathar brought it to him, 8 and David inquired of the Lord, “Shall I pursue this raiding party? Will I overtake them?”
“Pursue them,” he answered. “You will certainly overtake them and succeed in the rescue.”
9 David and the six hundred men with him came to the Besor Valley, where some stayed behind. 10 Two hundred of them were too exhausted to cross the valley, but David and the other four hundred continued the pursuit.
11 They found an Egyptian in a field and brought him to David. They gave him water to drink and food to eat— 12 part of a cake of pressed figs and two cakes of raisins. He ate and was revived, for he had not eaten any food or drunk any water for three days and three nights.
13 David asked him, “Who do you belong to? Where do you come from?”
He said, “I am an Egyptian, the slave of an Amalekite. My master abandoned me when I became ill three days ago. 14 We raided the Negev of the Kerethites,some territory belonging to Judah and the Negev of Caleb. And we burnedZiklag.”
15 David asked him, “Can you lead me down to this raiding party?”
He answered, “Swear to me before God that you will not kill me or hand me over to my master, and I will take you down to them.”
16 He led David down, and there they were, scattered over the countryside, eating, drinking and reveling because of the great amount of plunder they had taken from the land of the Philistines and from Judah. 17 David fought them from dusk until the evening of the next day, and none of them got away, except four hundred young men who rode off on camels and fled. 18 David recovered everything the Amalekites had taken, including his two wives.19 Nothing was missing: young or old, boy or girl, plunder or anything else they had taken. David brought everything back. 20 He took all the flocks and herds, and his men drove them ahead of the other livestock, saying, “This is David’s plunder.”
21 Then David came to the two hundred men who had been too exhausted to follow him and who were left behind at the Besor Valley. They came out to meet David and the men with him. As David and his men approached, he asked them how they were. 22 But all the evil men and troublemakers among David’s followers said, “Because they did not go out with us, we will not share with them the plunder we recovered. However, each man may take his wife and children and go.”
23 David replied, “No, my brothers, you must not do that with what the Lord has given us. He has protected us and delivered into our hands the raiding party that came against us. 24 Who will listen to what you say? The share of the man who stayed with the supplies is to be the same as that of him who went down to the battle. All will share alike.” 25 David made this a statute and ordinance for Israel from that day to this.
26 When David reached Ziklag, he sent some of the plunder to the elders of Judah, who were his friends, saying, “Here is a gift for you from the plunder of the Lord’s enemies.”
27 David sent it to those who were in Bethel, Ramoth Negev and Jattir; 28 to those in Aroer, Siphmoth, Eshtemoa 29 and Rakal; to those in the towns of the Jerahmeelites and the Kenites; 30 to those in Hormah, Bor Ashan, Athak 31 and Hebron; and to those in all the other places where he and his men had roamed.
I agree with Oubeliette. Imagine that you were still a believing JW and your wife was Catholic. Would you allow a priest to indoctrinate your son into the Catholic faith against your wishes? Would you meekly accept it when he refused to even discuss it?
I know it's hard, but you must stand up to these clowns. It's hard because you have been conditioned to meekly accept the authority of the elders. Even when you realize it's not "The Truth" you are still being affected by the mind control and they still are exercising authority over you. They only have the power you give them.
Tell your wife that if she is not respecting your headship and it needs to stop. Personally I think the headship thing is nonsense, but supposedly she should still follow it. Tell her you will study the bible with your son and use that as an opportunity to counter the Watchtower indoctrination. That way you can help him see the Watchtower is not following the bible.
I totally agree with millie210 and worf.
You need to jump on this fast. I was a lot like worf expect I am the wife and my husband was an elder. I let a lot of things go that were wrong because I was a women who was supposed to be in subjection, plus it's just not my nature to be in your face. I always thought being nice and kind would be the best. You know the old saying you catch more "fly's with honey than vinegar."
That is not how it works in this religion. The more time you let pass the more aggressive they become and then they throw it in you face of 'well why didn't you say something back then or step up and do something if it was so important to you' 'It;s all your fault because you allowed it by not saying anything or doing something.' I have truly and honestly been told that I allowed it all the garbage that happened to me to happen because I did not speak up loud enough.
I did and did and did say things and tried to talk to them but like you I was told I can't speak right now or I will call you next week. Next week never came. I even went over to one sister's home who used to like to go out in service alone with my husband while I was at work. It drive me crazy that they were going out by themselves while they were both married to other people but I was treated like a child for being upset over it. I talked to my husband till I was blue in the face and I tired and tried to talk to this sister but like with you she was always to busy or something so this one day I just went to her hone. While this sister was beyond mad at me for daring to even confront her. She shoved a foot stool at me while she sat in a tall chair looking down on me and treated me like I was a stupid child. I begged and begged and begged my husband not to go alone but this sister lived down the road and she wanted to pioneer and she did not have a car and we were her only ride and I was the crazy one for even thinking it was wrong, yada, yada, yada. That happened 20 years ago and it still hurts till this day. I had a right as the wife to say no, but my no was shot down. Now my husband tells me I was just to nice and I should have been more aggressive. Really I thought I was aggressive, I thought I was speaking out, no one listened or cared about my feelings. Even now I do not know what more I could have done to stop it expect for just leaving my marriage.
That was just on example of many, many, many things that happened to me and many were worse than that one I just wrote about. Way worse.
So you have got to jump on this and do it now or you will look back like I have and regret it. And I mean really regret it.
I texted this brother last night and said that we need to talk THIS WEEK. He texted that he would get back to me. We'll see what happens.
I still think you should just skip this guy and go to some elders and make a bold stand. But if you want to try being Mr. Nice Guy, you really need to be not-too-nice. This guy is putting you off. He is trying to get your son to be very active as a JW for the rest of his life and he sees you as the biggest obstacle.
Do as Witness My Fury said on page 5:
leaving it up to him to contact you about it means he never will. Put it in writing if needs be and slip it in his door if no one answers
And I would suggest you write a letter that says this- You have made arrangements with my wife without consulting me. You will no longer study with my son. His mother and I will see to that. You will no longer discuss this matter with my wife. If you have anything to say to my wife or son at all, you will contact me first.
Yes, your serious problem is weakness. Easy for a non-jw to say, but that's what it boils down to, nothing else. Your wife and everyone else are going to walk all over you because you let them.
When I learned TTATT, I immediately told my wife how I felt about it, pulled my son out of preaching and theocratic school and allowed him only the weekend meeting. Ever since I asked my son to read Crisis of Conscience, now he is reading Carl Olof Jonsson's Signs of the Last Days. Next it will be The Gentile Times Reconsidered. He knows he is not allowed to preach or attend the Theocratic School or get baptized for as long as he lives under my roof. Many here have criticized my tactics, but I am taking definitive actions and I am showing my resolve about something that I am passionate about: protecting the mental well being of the young.
It seems that you care more about other's approval than you care about the well being of your son. It's a damaging cult, especially damaging to the young. Are you worried about being disfellowshipped? So be it. It's a bit too late to be concerned about that. It may even be a good thing because then you can help your son without the restrictions imposed by the cult.