God and Suffering

by AK - Jeff 322 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Yes - if God is there - he deserves intense anger from us. Hitler was less bloodthirsty - do the images of Hitler killing 6 million peaceful people with gun and gas make you angry BTS? Well - that's just a drop in the bucket compared to what God has allowed/done/ignored for thousands of years.

    That's my point exactly. If there is a God - well, he deserves disdain, not love.

    God just drives by, smiles, and drives on past the carnage. If any human being did so at the site of these human tragedies, we would jail them, and show societal anger for them doing so. We expect 'God's children' to act, not passively pass by and ignore. Why should God not act? Yet he doesn't.

    Yes, this is an emotional issue for me. I love people. I hate lies. God doesn't seem to have those opinions.

    Personally I think we should worship sand. Sand has better qualities than God.

    As for his servants - well what opinion should I have of those who defend a Hitler-like God without shame?

    Jeff

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Is God like an absent Father to you? Or even an abusive one?

    Yes, both. Except his absence makes it very clear that he never was - so more like a sperm donor perhaps? Just spark the life then ignore it.

    Jeff

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    I will say this BTS - that if, on the way to work this morning, you or I or nearly anyone on the planet, drives past a person dying on the road - I suspect that most of us would stop and offer aid within our power.

    That action is clearly not a mirror image of God, who routinely just drives on by and let's them die without pity.

    When children are far better than the Father - I can't find any good reason to claim him as Father.

    I'd like to interject however, that this is how YOU see it AK-Jeff.

    No it isn't! I didn't make the description of God that you so vividly attempted to put into my mouth - My words have been clear - and they were not the one's you ascribe to me.

    Jeff

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    You place God in the title of your discussion, but then you discount the idea of God, "In the beginning God" ?? You place God as only a failry-tale construct and then attempt to shoot down or ignore this imaginary being....that's nuts. If he's imaginary....he doesn't need ignoring or shooting down.

    Jeff is trying to get some sense from believers that God allows such suffering. Perry, what you do is automatically assume Jeff rejects the idea of a god because he has rejected the Bible. Perry, you insult all that recognize there is no proof that the Bible is from God, yet they believe or don't strongly disbelieve in the idea that there is a god.

    The Bible is no more God than the Watchtower is God. Keep the two separate, Perry.

  • Edington
    Edington

    James 1

    '2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. 4 Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. 6 But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does.'

    I've always found these bible verses perplexing.

    I have to believe God will answer my prayers for help even though I know in my heart he probably wont,.................my reasoning being, if he hears the agonized screams of babies & tiny children being raped & abused for disgusting child porn & ignores them then he's sure as hell not gonna bother with me.

    Ed

  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR

    We as humans may be the manifestation of consciousness that was working at an unconscious level for millions of years. If all that exists is of God and God, then we are a part of God.

    Or we may be thinking too much of ourselves and are just advanced bacterior that is damaging the planet while a perfect invisible intelligence looks on dispassionately.

  • Perry
    Perry

    AKJ,

    We have all suffered great indignities from LIES. You've shared a bit of your own personal hell on other threads, I'll not repeat them here, but we all have similar experiences. My dear cousin recently died, no one even called me. My aunt we visited regularly in a nursing home, was in hospice for 3 weeks dying. No one let us know so that we could say goodbye. These are minor sufferings compared to the many that have died due to lies like blood issues, suicides from believing that they are "acquitted" of sin at death, imprisoned for false biblical exegesis on military/government service etc... not to mention all the other living hells due to other lies.

    Recently a global hoax called Climategate was nearly perpetrated on the whole planet to steal money from regular folks. Scientists flat out lied.

    Not discounting your own personal suffering, suffering is a fact of life. We can't do anything about that.

    We can however choose how we are going to deal with suffering. We can choose to be a victim, or we can chose victory over suffering through Christ:

    Phil. 3: Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
    9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
    10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
    11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

    Christians have made friends with suffering. It is a brotherhood of suffering. Our blood-covenant that we enter into requires it as when we die. We conqueor and defeat suffering just like Christ did. And, are generally quite happy to do so. It feels good to be a victor rather than a victum. This is not an illusion. There is great peace in the way of the cross.

    Jesus spent his 33 year career contributing to the peace of others. On that you apparently agree. But do you also believe his assertions that he was the Alpha and Omega Himself like he said in Revelation? And "God manifest in the flesh" in another place? How can you reconcile the apparent non-involvment of the Father you perceive with the tender compassion of the Son....healing the sick, being kind to the outcasts etc.

    The historical facts show that we are not good. We DO NOT want God. We do not want to trust in him that he knows best and that things will work out OK. The final piece of evidence to this charge that God has levied against us was acted out up on Calvary Hill when Jew and Gentile, friend and foe forsake him...all left him. We are not good.

    Now, if I happened upon a person injured, who wanted to kill me....I might just as well leave him alone. Do you understand the logic in this? However, if I thought he might be rehabilitated and that he might not want to kill me...I might help him. Either way, I am under NO moral obligation to help an enemy who seeks my death.

    MAN DOES NOT WANT GOD. However, God has shown kindness to his enemies. He makes the sun shine and the rain come upon all. He has also provided, at great cost to himself, a way to rehabilitate his ememies if they want it ...... through the re-birth where man is given a new spirit. This is not a metaphor...it is very real. "He is a new creation".

    We expect 'God's children' to act, not passively pass by and ignore. Why should God not act? Yet he doesn't.

    True. God's children are under obligation to show mercy to others because (1) we are just as guilty as the next person and (2) God has shown mercy to us. God is under no such obligation.

    On your 2nd charge, God has acted, you just refuse to recognize it. Should not the God of the universe also be the Judge? God judged man as depraved when we killed him. Also, those that put faith in him take advantage of His offer to take our punishment due us in our place, from the cross. Contrary to not acting as you assert....that is the ultimate act of kindness.

    When children are far better than the Father - I can't find any good reason to claim him as Father.

    Again, God is not your Father. He wasn't your father when you worked for the Watchtower, he wasn't your father when you left, he is not your father now, he NEVER WAS YOUR FATHER, or anyone elses for that matter from birth. You are not good, neither am I or is anyone else. We are God's enemy by nature. The sooner you get that, the sooner you'll be able to allow God to lift you out of your pit of despair, by giving you a new nature....One that is more agreeable to Him, to you, and to everyone else.

  • Perry
    Perry

    On The WAY Out:

    Perry, you insult all that recognize there is no proof that the Bible is from God, yet they believe or don't strongly disbelieve in the idea that there is a god.

    I have asked for another model that makes more sense and possesses greater internal logic than the biblical explanation.

    Show me the money!

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff
    I have asked for another model that makes more sense and possesses greater internal logic than the biblical explanation.

    Peter Pan or Cinderella? Both carry at least equal merit with the biblical fairytale to me. Good/Evil myths are everywhere - but to understand they are myths invented by man helps us to avoid attachment to them as factual.

    Jeff

  • Perry
    Perry

    Again Jeff you are caught in a circle of illogic. You assert God is real in your Title. Then you turn around and say none of this matters because Cinderella doesn't exist.

    You are smarter than that.

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