Why don't you just take it like a man? (page 9)

Black Sheep

Welcome to the forum Paulapollos.

I think it is quite cunning, actually. Make predictions based on mankind's normal reactions to having been lied to and tack them onto a lie you tell them. Instant prophet, or is that, profit?

Cheers

Chris

Paulapollos

The other thing I wanted to say was on the matter of how effectual it might be to challenge the Society on the policy of disfellowshipping. Someone earler mentioned a legal challenge.

The Society is an organisation, and as such, has morphed and mutated until it has identified 2 primary aims: self-preservation and self-perpetuation. I can't help but see striking similarities between the Soviet system, and the organisation. The Politburo (GB) claims to represent the forces of progress, and the Party elite (the "annointed"), but in reality, sole decision-making power is concentrated in the Politburo (GB). It is only a matter of time before that "FDS" teaching is changed to apply to the GB solely. The Politburo maintains its control over it's subjects through the organs of state repression and terror (KGB, NKVD) - otherwise known as the "appointed men." As for it's official mouthpiece, the WT very neatly has its parallel in Pravda.

My point is that disfellowshipping is a vital plank in the self-perpetuation of this structure. The Society is, as it ruefully informed readers in one "Question from Readers" (in reality, often submitted by responsible men within the organistaion with the sanction of the Writing Comittee, in order to solidify organisational doctrine), unable to kill those who are disfellowshipped (yes, that is what they said) due to legal restrictions imposed by modern nation-states.but it can ensure that JW's do not contact such individuals. The demonisation of these ones is a deliberate strategy followed by the organisation. The organisation must do this to protect itself from exposure.

Any legal challenge, even if it were, by some miraculous power, sucessful, would augur nothing. The organisation is skilled in the arts of mendacity and sophistry. It might change it's official policy, but the undeniable impression that would be conveyed by the organisations security apparatus would be that, while not legally allowed to "shun" former JW's, those who did associate with disfellowshipped ones were not "acting in harmony with the spirit of the inspired counsel found in God's Word, regading the need to closely watch association." I would expect such ones to be marked.

As one CO said last year, why do JW parents wait for their "wayward children to be disfellowshipped? If they are drifting and not coming to th Kingdom Hall, if they are not active JW's. if they are not living harmony with the Bible's counsel. then why must you wait till they are officially disfellowshipped to limit association?"

Most Witnesses would simply view any sucessful legal challenge as a temporary victory aloowed by Jehovah to "further refine his organisation" - and that would mean that He was weeding out those who were disobdient among them. As one "annointed" brother said recently, "if the GB told me to jump off a bridge, I would." Such blind obedience is truly a staggering achievement! I wonder if the governements of the respective world powers have ever thought about recruiting Witnesses into intelligence programs researching propganda and the control of mass populations? It would be a useful investment!

In reality, the stucture would simply ensure that outward compliance to the law was maintained, whilst inner practice and doctrine remained substantially unchanged. The Society are capable of it - and let no-one doubt that they would carry it out. This is a matter of self-preservation.

To be honest, while it hurts to be ignored by people you grew up with, and spent your whole life with, nothing really would be effectually achieved. The key is simply to move on - hard as it is, I know, since I am having to rebuild my life completely from scratch, having given most of my life in "full-time" service. But is the only way. Attempting to change the organisation through legal challenges only adds to their martyr complex, their exaggerated sense of self-importance, and the belief of rank-and-file JW's that Satan is attcking the people of God.

Paulapollos

Chris - no-one said they're not skilled!!! I think they may have spent some time reading 1984!!

sammielee24

Sounds a lot like a Reniaa comment as she made a similar one during one of her other posts...I think I said at that time, that the comment was an outright lie. The WTS is born on lies and teaches their flock to lie for the 'greater' good - so in essence they refuse to provide a list of destructive actions and punishment for their new members alias/bible studies. Shunning, blood issue, having your personal freedoms taken away...those are the things that destroy people but that no JW will admit it. They somehow don't think that destroying peoples lives and then lying about is really unworthy of the term Christian....but in reality it is. sammieswife.

sammielee24

Oops sorry..just read the rest of the posts and see it was Lola.

Interesting enough as Jeff was being told off, I did note that Lola admits she is a 'fader'..and shortly thereafter also states that she doesn't care what JW's think of her.

One only uses a fade if in fact one does care about what they think of her. If one is truly desirous of leaving a group and doesn't give a fig about what the group thinks, then they stand up, make the reasons they are leaving clear, wave good bye and leave. If they slink into netherland without cutting the ties completely, it means that they don't want to face the music aka punishment and wrath of the group. Admittedly there are reactions to action, but in the case of the society, many of those who are being punished and for many of those whose lives have been destroyed (subjective to the power that families play within society) by the WTS reaction/punishment to the action is not equitable and extreme; the reaction/punishment is not known to exist by the person committing the offense and if the basis for the member joining the group is deception and/or youth, then the punishment should not exist at all. sammieswife.

Paulapollos

Well, people can convince themselves of the moral imperatives of anything if the rewards are sufficient. The fact is that many come into JW for one reason - the Paradise. They want this magical utopia where God sits on a throne in Heaven, runs a government that is enviromentally friendly, makes sure that there is no war, crime, sickness, or death, and that everyone has big houses, and the latest yachts so that they can sail around the earth. Since they define "materialism" as reaching out for material things, there is no more materalistic people than JW's. They want the Paradise, and they'll do anything to reach it. After all, Juvenal was right - the plebs have no power in this "new system" they are populating. And so, his words are true - "with no vote to sell, their motto is "couldn't care less," Time was when their plebiscite elected generals, heads of state, commanders of legions: but now they've pulled in their horns, there's only two things than concern them: BREAD and CIRCUSES."

BabaYaga

If I am not mistaken, Lola doesn't care what JW's think of her because she has no family in.

Am I correct?

Oh, and by the way... welcome back, Lola.

AllTimeJeff

Hi paulapollos. I have enjoyed your comments thus far, and tend to agree with them.

Your insight into the mind of a "typical" JW is revealing, and I think, one we should all pay attention to. We ex JW's sometimes wonder why they can't see, and its all about the thinking process that they have adopted.

Having said that, the reactions of former JW's, while portrayed a certain way by the GB, doesn't mean at all that they are correct, or that said reactions are wrong in of themselves.

There is no point in "taking it like a man." One can only be a man, or a woman, and be strong, whatever that means for you.

lola28

You can go into a store or restaurant and go up to someone who is shunning you and make them acknowledge you but so what? When you sit down or leave the store they’ll still think of you as less than pond scum so why even bother? That’s my point, I did however get some insight with Jeff’s post where he pointed out all the things he had done for the same people that now shun him and it’s heart breaking,

I have to ask, how long have JW’s been DF’ing people for? What makes any of you think that forcing them to acknowledge your existence is suddenly going to change their ways? I hope I’m wrong and they have made changes to things in the past but I don’t think this is one of those things that they will be changing.

Lola

journey-on

It's not about them when I walk up to a JW acquaintance and say "hello, how are you" and then make small talk. It's about ME and being the person I am. When I see anybody I know, I acknowledge them. It's not a bother to display decent behavior and I think it is especially important to display it to JWs that attempt to shun. It really isn't about making them think anything, but rather about the way you think about yourself. So I left their cult. I knew their rules about it, but I don't play by their rules. Will they change? Maybe, maybe not. But whether they do or not is not going to change ME. I am going to march up to them with my natural confidence and good nature and speak and their reaction is not going to cause me any grief.

Why don't you just take it like a man?

Share this