How many of you knew about the"Jesus is not your Mediator" teaching when you were JWs??

by Lady Liberty 183 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  blondie

  I feel the shock is that many jws connect 1 Tim. 2:5 with praying through Jesus as a mediator. If Jesus is not their mediator, that means they cannot pray through Jesus.

  Actually, many if not most jws still would answer that Jesus is their mediator....they don't get or won't get the WTS explanation.

  1 Timothy 2:1-7 Is Paul discussing the new covenant or prayer? How does the WTS apply it?

  I therefore exhort, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, offerings of thanks, be made concerning all sorts of men, 2 concerning kings and all those who are in high station; in order that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life with full godly devotion and seriousness. 3 This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4 whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus,6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—[this is] what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times. 7 For the purpose of this witness I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—a teacher of nations in the matter of faith and truth.

  jws believe that Jesus is the mediator between then and God when it comes to prayer, between all not just a select few.

  *** w04 2/1 p. 14 par. 6 Jehovah Provides Our Daily Needs ***The next request in the model prayer is: "Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors." (Matthew 6:12) Jesus was not here speaking of debts of money. He had in mind the forgiveness of our sins. In Luke’s record of the model prayer, this request reads: "Forgive us our sins, for we ourselves also forgive everyone that is in debt to us." (Luke 11:4) Thus, when we sin, it is as if we incur a debt to Jehovah. But our loving God is prepared to ‘blot out,’ or cancel, that debt if we sincerely repent, "turn around," and ask him for forgiveness on the basis of faith in Christ’s ransom sacrifice.—Acts 3:19; 10:43; 1 Timothy 2:5, 6.

  *** w04 4/1 p. 32 Should We Call Upon Angels for Help? ***God has determined that prayers be addressed to him in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, who said: "No matter what you ask the Father in my name he might give it to you."—John 15:16; 1 Timothy 2:5.

  *** w02 7/1 p. 8 Worship God "in Spirit" ***Is it proper to pray to Jesus’ earthly mother, Mary, or to particular "saints," asking them to intercede with God in one’s behalf? The Bible’s direct answer is: "There is only one mediator between God and mankind, himself a man, Christ Jesus."—1 Timothy 2:5.

  *** w97 2/15 p. 28 Agreement Between "God’s Temple" and Idols in Greece? **Furthermore, in a very clear way, the Scriptures rule out the idea of praying to "saints" in order for them to act as intercessors with God. In his model prayer, Jesus taught that prayers are to be addressed to the Father only, since he directed his disciples: "You must pray, then, this way: ‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.’" (Matthew 6:9) Jesus further stated: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you ask anything in my name, I will do it." And the apostle Paul stated: "There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus."—John 14:6, 14; 1 Timothy 2:5.

  *** w97 2/15 p. 28 Agreement Between "God’s Temple" and Idols in Greece? **Furthermore, in a very clear way, the Scriptures rule out the idea of praying to "saints" in order for them to act as intercessors with God. In his model prayer, Jesus taught that prayers are to be addressed to the Father only, since he directed his disciples: "You must pray, then, this way: ‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.’" (Matthew 6:9) Jesus further stated: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you ask anything in my name, I will do it." And the apostle Paul stated: "There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus."—John 14:6, 14; 1 Timothy 2:5.

  *** w02 7/1 p. 8 Worship God "in Spirit" ***Is it proper to pray to Jesus’ earthly mother, Mary, or to particular "saints," asking them to intercede with God in one’s behalf? The Bible’s direct answer is: "There is only one mediator between God and mankind, himself a man, Christ Jesus."—1 Timothy 2:5.

  *** w97 2/15 p. 28 Agreement Between "God’s Temple" and Idols in Greece? **Furthermore, in a very clear way, the Scriptures rule out the idea of praying to "saints" in order for them to act as intercessors with God. In his model prayer, Jesus taught that prayers are to be addressed to the Father only, since he directed his disciples: "You must pray, then, this way: ‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.’" (Matthew 6:9) Jesus further stated: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you ask anything in my name, I will do it." And the apostle Paul stated: "There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus."—John 14:6, 14; 1 Timothy 2:5.

  *** w97 2/15 p. 28 Agreement Between "God’s Temple" and Idols in Greece? **Furthermore, in a very clear way, the Scriptures rule out the idea of praying to "saints" in order for them to act as intercessors with God. In his model prayer, Jesus taught that prayers are to be addressed to the Father only, since he directed his disciples: "You must pray, then, this way: ‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.’" (Matthew 6:9) Jesus further stated: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you ask anything in my name, I will do it." And the apostle Paul stated: "There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus."—John 14:6, 14; 1 Timothy 2:5.

  (1 Timothy 2:1-7) 2
• 

  androb31

  “Mediator: One who interposes between two parties at variance to reconcile them.” —Insight, vol. 2, p. 360

  If Jesus is Not Your Mediator “Reconciling” You to God, Who Is?

  “Jesus Christ is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members.” —Worldwide Security Under the “Prince of Peace,” p. 10 (View PDFof this page)

  “Think of a legal case in which an attorney is involved… Of course, you are not in that legal case, so in that sense he is not serving as your attorney… The people of all nations… benefit even now from Jesus’ services. Though he is not their legal Mediator, for they are not in the new covenant, he is their means of approaching Jehovah.”—The Watchtower, August 15, 1989, p. 31 (View PDFof this page)

  Taken from http://www.4jehovah.org/card-jwmediator.php PDF's are located here at this link. They don't seem to want to pull up thru copy and paste.
• 

  yknot

  Kudra...

  Atlantis posted this sendspace link about a week ago of the April 2009 SE....

  http://www.sendspace.com/file/b8gi9y
• 

  sacolton

  Their mediator is the dead 144,000 anointed and it trickles down to them.
• 

  isaacaustin

  sacolton, you mean nemancrancy (communication with the dead)? LOL
• 

  Kudra

  ynot-- Thanks!!
• 

  Narkissos

  Blondie made a very good point about mesitès ("mediator") being used in the context of prayer rather than covenant in 1 Timothy 2:5, and this text being still referenced in a non-restricted way in WT literature (which somehow clashes with my memory that the word "mediator" was to be avoided in prayer; I wonder if it is still the case). That it applies to all mankind (at least potentially) in the context of 1 Timothy is apparent from the context:
  This (praying for all, v. 1-2) is right and is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires everyone (pantas anthrôpous, "all men") to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For
  there is one God;
  there is also one mediator between God and humankind (anthrôpôn, "men"),
  Christ Jesus, himself human (anthrôpos),
  who gave himself a ransom for all (huper pantôn).

  The NT use of mesitès is relatively rare (it is not a common Christological title as "Lord" or "Saviour") and very diverse. In Galatians (3:19-20), the fact that the Law was given through angels and a mediator (Moses) highlights its inferiority to the promise which depends on God alone (the author would not call Christ a "mediator" as this would ruin the argument.

  All other uses of mesitès, applied to Christ, belong to the particular allegorical typology of Hebrews (8:6; 9:15; 12:24). They actually represent Christ, not as a mediator in the usual sense of legal "go-between," but rather as the guarantee of a diathèkè which is rather construed as a testament or will (whence the necessity of death of the testator for the testament to be valid, 9:16ff) than as a "covenant" (sunthèkè). This is also apparent from the (unique) use of the related verb mesiteuô in 6:17: God guaranteed (emesiteusen) the promise by an oath. The same thought is carried by another noun (a quasi-synonym in the context of Hebrews) in 7:22: "Jesus has also become the guarantee (egguos) of a better covenant." Here also we have an antithetical parallelism with Moses, but contrary to Galatians, the word mesitès (in a different sense) falls on Christ's side, not Moses'.
• 

  Earnest

  My own feelings at the time reflect those of BluesBrother that it was a technical use of terms but, in effect, nothing had changed. An interesting article which highlights this shows that the understanding goes right back to the time of Russell.

  In the article 'THE WORD MEDIATOR USED DIFFERENTLY' Zion's Watch Tower, January 1, 1909, pp.11-12 states :

  Your attention is called to our use of the word Mediator in the seventh line of the article, "Homing the Ark," page 308, October 15th issue. We there speak of the "officiating priest who acted as the mediator between God and the nation." It would have been better had we used a different word on this occasion; for instance, advocate. Strictly speaking the Law Covenant constituted the bond of union between God and natural Israel, and Moses was the mediator of that covenant. The priest, strictly speaking, was not the mediator, but, under the terms of the Law Covenant, which Moses mediated, the officiating priest was the advocate, friend and representative of the Israelites before the bar of divine justice.

  This well illustrates the too careless manner in which we, and nearly all Christians, have been accustomed to use this word mediator. For instance, repeatedly in DAWN-STUDIES, Vol. V., we refer to our Lord as the "Mediator of the Atonement." This is entirely correct, if judged by the ordinary standards of our language as generally used by us all. Of late, however, this Journal has endeavored to draw the attention of the Lord's people to the fact that the Bible uses the word mediator in a restricted sense and has urged that all Bible Students endeavor to take the Bible viewpoint only and to use the word mediator from that standpoint alone.

  The correction above made shows how difficult it is for any of us to rid himself of the habit. The use of the word mediator in the Scriptures is restricted to the mediating of covenants between God and man.
• 

  designs

  The reality is that it probably doesn't matter about technical interpretations. The Almighty is kind or not, and I tend to think the Supreme Being is on the kind side. We have this planet to care for, its our home. We have our families and friends as community. Being good stewards of this ship is what is important.
• 

  isaacaustin

  designs...amen! This ship...while I beleive in one to come, it is ridiculous to not handle the one we are on now. There is much good we can do in the world...helping others.