Where else would I go? Regardless of many issues I may have over certain things the WTBTS, the more important teachings are in line with how I view God would want his followers to act. I can't see how God would find many holidays acceptable for his followers to celebrate. I don't believe in the Trinity. I don't believe in hell. I don't believe everyone is going to heaven. etc, etc. If you know of another group out there who has similar beliefs, without some of the other (more minor) problems associated with imperfect human direction - let me know! I say "minor" because like it or not, the doctrines taught by JW's are much more important than the indiscretions of their organization. Also, I can see that many times God has used sources which have been very much mistaken on a great many of things. In truth, no one can have a serious debate to prove that God's channel should be without error - never has that occurred. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps members of the GB don't make it, yet his faithful servants still do? Even though Moses was considered very faithful, many Hebrews made it to the promise land whereas he did not. People hold their responsibility directly to God, and cannot hide behind the good or bad actions of another.
Disfellowshiped Last Night - Elder Question
by johnnyc 91 Replies latest jw experiences
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free2beme
I see no value in coming back, so move on and leave the trash behind you
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shamus100
Hi Jonny,
You have a long ways to go, my friend. I've been where you are.
I am an athiest now. Look away from the WTBTS for some real answers to your questions.
Frankly, seven years ago, I never thought that I would ever be an athiest. Once I freed my mind from the WTBTS, I asked myself "then what", with a view that I could go back if I so chose. Never did make it, and never looked back.
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johnnyc
I can see being agnostic, but an atheist??? You must be one of the smartest people on earth - usually not even evolutionists (scientists) are true atheist, since they feel there is too much they can't explain. I can follow most biological arguments for evolution (i said follow, not agree with), but predisposition theory pertaining to matters of physics is beyond comprehension. As you probably know, there are only 4 actual elements in the universe, and yet every sub element is derivative of those 4 elements. How, for instance, those elements morphed into beneficial conglomerate sub elements without "self-serving" motives (as can be argued in biology) is so beyond my comprehension that I am either too stupid, or too smart. Only time with tell of course. "If for every answer there is a thousand questions - how can that lead to truth"
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leavingwt
If you're looking for CERTAINTY, you'll need to join a cult.
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yknot
Johnny,
We are all on our own individual journeys along this path.
I think several of us here do not do holidays, still be the core 3 as you do, but feel the cultic tactics of exclusivity but yet somehow not inspired all wrapped up with red tape of legalism goes beyond Christ in way past knee deep into Pharisee like behavior.
I think for your own piece of mind do what you have to do to get reinstated.
I would be interested in you making a list of what you agree on and what you don't. For instance here are mine :3 Core, holidays/birthdays (but should be a MOC), literal 144,000, I like the JW 'new system' concept but acknowlegde it as an interpretation and not scripturally proved, and I like to see active preaching (but not turning in hours).....
The Bible Students are similar and have the core 3 ....... RR who post mostly on JWS is one, if you have questions.
Many non-denomination congregations have some ease regarding the core 3 but all of mine have trinity written into the statement of faith.
If you haven't yet read Ray Franz.... In Searh of Christian Freedom might be of help. He is not an apostate just more spiritual then organizational. Remember too that if YOU disagree with anything the WTS teaches as a bible truth, you too are an APOSTATE.
Remember the scripture tells us not to forsake fellowship but if Jesus had wanted a legal organization he could have reformed the Pharisees. Jesus was all about internal devotion not just the mere outward actions. So please continue to pray and meditate on the Bible while asking for guidance via holy spirit.
The only certainty in Christianity is Christ. The rest is about incoporating his commandments, which are a light yoke. If you love Christ and manifest that love in your heart, then you will radiate the love back out into the world in your actions, deeds and words.
I hope you make the list
Keep us posted, please consider either JWS or JWR after JWD closes......
Yknot...... of the KH attending class.
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Mary
First, my addiction did lead to doing things that were "over the line" with regards simple "dependence". I "doctor shopped" (more than one doc), and even purchased pain killers illegally (street). No question I had a problem and did things I shouldn't have. However, I do firmly believe that the elders on my JC should have determined my level of repentance at that moment based upon my acts to that point only.
Did any of them suggest you get profession help and counselling for drug addiction? No? Didn't think so. This is a classic example of having untrained, unqualified people deal with a serious problem. Instead of reaching out and helping you, they're doing the opposite: they've decided to isolate you from their little world in order to 'teach you a lesson'. Can you ever imagine Jesus doing such a thing? That alone should tell you that these goons are not being guided by the Holy Spirit........
Where else would I go?
You're equating leaving a man-made religion that has a 100% failed prophecy record with Jesus himself. There's a huge difference.
I can't see how God would find many holidays acceptable for his followers to celebrate.
Perhaps you'd like a copy of the project I recently finished that shows how many things Jehovah's Witnesses practice today that have their roots in 'paganism'. The WTS has demonized every single holiday for the sole reason that they want to be seen as "different". You really think Jehovah cares that someone takes their mother out for Mothers Day because they love her and want to honor her?
I don't believe in the Trinity. I don't believe in hell. I don't believe everyone is going to heaven. etc, etc. If you know of another group out there who has similar beliefs, without some of the other (more minor) problems associated with imperfect human direction - let me know!
Every religion is going to have problems------You have to find one that you're comfortable with. The WTS has got some of the wackiest beliefs out there so it shouldn't be too hard to find something better.
I say "minor" because like it or not, the doctrines taught by JW's are much more important than the indiscretions of their organization.
That simply is not true. Jesus said "by their fruits you will recognize them". The WTS is guilty of covering up numerous cases of peophilia, they've driven people to suicide by their sick practice of disfellowshipping, and the Govering Body members have basically elevated themselves to judge, jury and executioner of 6.5 million lives. Even if you ignore all of that, they fulfill the bible's description of a false prophet, they constantly change their minds on what the scriptures actually say and they teach totally bizarre things, like: Jesus is the Mediator for ONLY 144,000, that he returned invisibly in 1914, that he chose them as the 'faithful and discreet slave' in 1918 and a whole host of other doctrines that are found nowhere in the scriptures. If I were you, I'd be taking a very close look at both their doctrines and their 'indiscretions'.
In truth, no one can have a serious debate to prove that God's channel should be without error - never has that occurred. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps members of the GB don't make it, yet his faithful servants still do? Even though Moses was considered very faithful, many Hebrews made it to the promise land whereas he did not. People hold their responsibility directly to God, and cannot hide behind the good or bad actions of another.
If that's the case, then why are the Governing Body members so adament that the rank and file Witness follow everything they say if they want to receive God's favour?
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besty
the doctrines taught by JW's are much more important than the indiscretions of their organization.
Who is responsible for the hundreds of JW lives lost during the period when organ transplants were banned?
And for the lives lost for the sake of a banned blood fraction that is now on the acceptable list? Or the lives lost because 99% of JW's don't understand the current policy on blood fractions and just say no to everything?
Are these lives just organizational indiscretions to you or 'much more important' doctrines?
The GB are drenched in blood JohnnyC - don't join yourself back to that.
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spoopy
johnny
I see alot of myself in you. You tend to get hung up on technicalities. Not necccasarily a bad thing, but does not go over well with the elders. Your labeled as being difficult.
I was in your situation. Not the disfellowshipping fiasco but rather feeling the need to be a part of an organization. While I did not agree with how the JW's did everything nor was I convinced of "all" of their teachings, or their involvement with the UN and etc; I did agree with their basic core beliefs. As you you brought out where would I go to find a religion that teaches these things? I therefore felt that I would go back and take the good, overlook the bad and trust that Jehovah would take care of "those taking the lead" that were abusing their position.
I jumped through their hoops and got reinstated. It was only a couple of weeks after that I stopped attending the meetings. I could not take it! I could not sit there and take the lies and deception. I could not stand see the members of the cong. hanging on to every word in awe, as if it were coming from someone "faithful", while I new full well that it was either an outright lie or deception.
I know I am smarter than that. I was not not going to sit there and be forced to believe something that was either a lie, or a concept that was constantly changing more than Ohio weather. If I wanted to be subjected to lies and half truths and false prophecies I could go to ANY religion.
I was involved with the witnesses for over 30 years. In that time I could say that I had "read" the bible several times and that I had "studied" the bible and I new what it said. When I disassociated myself and was away for 7 years, I read the bible and studied the bible on my own. With the help of JWD I found out what the bible REALLY said and what the witnesses were really about.
When I went back to the hall I was no longer "being programmed" I had been like the Bereans and now I could use my thinking powers that God had given me to make an INFORMED decision about what I was being taught.
My advice:
1) This df'ing situation should be a major red flag.
2) Take some time and do some personal study of the bible and what it really says.
3) It's your faith in Jehovah and his son that mean life. Not affilliation with some organized religion.
4) Religion is just a place for people to buy peace and tranquility.
5) When you align yourself with a certtain religion, people people veiw you based on the teachings of that particular religion. What is wrong with just being a christian and identifying yourself as such through your example.
6) Affilliation is for weak people who lack confidence and self regulation. They need others to tell them what is right and wrong.
7) Remember leaving the organization does not mean your leaving Jehovah. Your just cutting out the middle man.
8) Take your time. Whatever you do, do not give someone else your power. If you do need to return, fine. Be convinced in what you believe and what you want. If they don't have what your looking for you will know that it's not for you. Turn and walk away without another doubt.
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funkyderek
johnnyc:
As you probably know, there are only 4 actual elements in the universe, and yet every sub element is derivative of those 4 elements.
Fire, earth, air and water?
How, for instance, those elements morphed into beneficial conglomerate sub elements without "self-serving" motives (as can be argued in biology) is so beyond my comprehension that I am either too stupid, or too smart
Definitely not too smart.