Let's Limit Young People , or Crazies from Killing Each Other in Schools

by flipper 103 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Mincan

  There has never been as far as I know of, a concrete medical diagnosis for ADD or ADHD even though drugs are commonly prescribed for the illness however, they are working on a 'real' diagnostic set of tools that will evaluate true ADD. The illness was first labelled as a result of psychiatric groups getting together and making that decision. Some of the drugs given to children for this behaviour have never been intended for children and the long term affects are still not all known. Everyone has a different answer as to why it is now so prevalent and the answers range from vitamin deficiency, poor or no parental control, bad behaviour, allergies, premature births etc.

  Dexedrine and Ritalin are among the most well known pharmocological agents. Amphetamines have been around since the 1880s and have been studied for just as long. The FDA approved Ritalin and Dexedrine for ADHD in the 1950s and have been proven effective for decades on people that benefit from them.

  Less blood flow to the brain. Less glucose metabolism in the brain. 70% more DAT transporters in the striatum. Lower levels of dopamine throughout the brain (using chemical markers and SPECT scan). Overactive RAS and thalamus. Structural differences in prefrontal cortex. Polymorphism of the DRD4 resulting in the 7 repeat allele. Audio and visual processing diagnostic tests. It took me several months and trips to many specialists (developmental pediatrician, psychiatrist, specialist doctors, etc) for me to be diagnosed when I was a wee one.

  There's been more data on the brain differences in the past 4 years than all the rest combined. Since we've mapped the human genome and actually can identify which genes are specific to which behaviour traits, they are beginning to understand exactly which genes and brain differences account for ADHD. I encourage you to simply look up DRD4 in google and read the government webpage that published all the findings of recent research into that receptor, they are now convinced this gene is directly responsible up to 30% for the symptomology of ADHD.

  Also, I just had to mention that these medications are highly variable to people. A common side effect of amphetamines and other stimulants like methylphenidate (Ritalin) is increased socialisation, and that's a positive thing. Dexedrine has improved my socialisation ability which allows me to come out of my shell more often. It makes me if anything less violent. I'm more violent when my mind is racing and I'm in a state of agitated depression unmedicated.
• 

  hillbilly

  George Wallace took a shot... and that sorta straightened his anti-black butt out. You mean someone had to shoot a racist to change his attitude. Hillbilly, I seriously doubt that a bullet changed his attitude. I believe in this case someone did not like his attitude. Does that mean anyone who has a bad attitude needs a shot in the head just because of an opposing viewpoint? Pretty extreme. What ever happened to freedom of speech no matter how nutty it is? So if a student gets pissy on a teacher or fellow student, out comes the hardware?

  Can we trust untrained juveniles to use a weapon responsibly at say age 14-19? How about 20? Kids that age can't even behave in a restaurant flipping burgers, never mind a weapon.

  Pretty extreme, yes? No?

  I George Wallaces' case it seems he realized that lot's of folks though he was way out of line. After he whas shot he softened and became rather apologetic about his racist attitude. Sorry, I forgot to place a tounge- in -cheek thingy there.

  I dont think, however, that anyone needs to be shot over there attitude... you, sir, seem to have a true talent for jumping to errant conclusions. I trying to make the point that folks like the president and some private persons can afford pretty good security. You seem to think I advocate busting a cap on anyone who pisses one off.

  By the way... I have a trained juvenile who I trusted my "6" to from his age of 14-19. We have some pretty well heeled kids posted all around the world.

  ~Hill
• 

  Homerovah the Almighty

  Thats cool mrk no harm done

  I'm not too sure reading your comment that going to that extent would be necessary but I do believe a stronger presence would make a difference,

  and I'm sure there would be great support for that by the students, parents and teachers .

  Of course this means an increased cost in operating the facility, but since we're talking about a life or death situation I think the students and parents would be

  willing to open up their wallets a little more for that added security.
• 

  worldtraveller

  If you think I am a bit jaded, you are correct. You see, sir, that a self inflicted gun shot killed my younger brother at age 35 on my daughters 5th birthday. If you think I don't deserve an opinion on the evils of a gun, I just hope your family never experiences what hell I went through on April 8, 1995. I also lost a mom whose heart was broken from what had happened. She died shortly after at just 69 .My surviving brother won't speak to me because I was not there to help him, and my daughter experienced suicide by her uncle and was devastated. Her dperession is just healing now-12 years later.

  So screw the lectures-I need no bullshit from you or anyone else.

  BTW-so one kid has his shit together. Good for your son , but what about the millions of other kids exposed to the violence?

  If you wish to communicate with me, next time try being a bit more compassionate. Otherwise just ignore my comments.

  Sorry to the rest of you who may be a bit upset by reading this but if my brother did not have a gun, we would still be together.

  Only those who lost family (from suicide) will understand the hurt that never seems to go away completely. Good night.
• 

  hillbilly

  Condolences for your losses.

  No lecture meant..but if you say what you mean ...maybe folks wont confuse what you are talking about. Suicide and the collateral problems is a whole other issue than this topic intends to pursue.

  ~Hill
• 

  Gregor

  I rest my case. Jesus H. Christ.
• 

  rimfiredancing

  When young people in society observe the passive acceptance of the violence endemic in their society, including in the way that their country deals with problems outside their borders, why is it so surprising that they feel violence is acceptable?
  
  I find it curious that people can be indifferent to the massacres engendered with the hidden agenda of procuring oil, during which 1000's more than the numbers of student victims are affected, but are very upset at what takes place on their own soil. Do Americans really think that they can maintain a policy of violent domination in the rest of the world, including corporate sanctioned violence, and this violence not come back to roost on their own territory? I find that curious indeed. In a paradigm where it's clear that life means nothing when it gets in the way of profits, belief in superiority or corporate agenda, why is it so surprising that people in society start reflecting that belief? It was ok to massacre the Indians in the name of progress, development and societal superiority, it's ok to massacre the environment, it's ok to massacre the innocent in the name of profits (toxic waste dumps creating cancer epidemics in housing developments, it's ok to bomb the beejums out of any country that is getting in the way of yours, but violence at home? Western culture *still* turns a blind eye to the majority of the violence done to women, children, the elderly, the disabled, those of non-hetero sexualities, indigenous and fringe groups- kids grow up being generally and profoundly brutalised by a culture that doesn't give a genuine rat's arse about the wellbeing of its members.
  
  And there's a wonder about young people becoming violent?
  
  As far as video games and violence go, there's been so many studies that prove the link is tenuous at best: previous generations grew up with 'cops and robbers', 'cowboys and indians', which were all culturally sanctioned versions of violence for their time. It didn't have any influence on a majority of kids growing up to be killers. All my gentle sons play violent video games- so do I (Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament being two of my favorites). I know plenty of violent people who don't play games at all. The whole issue of games is yet another fingerpointing exercise that completely circumvents the reality of a society that is immune to the violence it puts out into the world, but is prepared to get righteously indignant about violence done that they *haven't* sanctioned.
  
  Same shit, different stage, really.
• 

  mkr32208

  My heart goes out to you with the issues with your dad, I dealt with many health issues with my mom and it can take you to wit's end. Peace be with you...

  My dad? No I work in the hospital and this geezer was just a patient. Some would argue that I'm already at wits end! (and an EXTRA piece for you baby! )

  if my brother did not have a gun, we would still be together

  I don't mean to be unkind but... How do you figure? If he was suicidal the gun was merely the closest/easiest thing. Men often use guns. Women (even in houses where guns are available) don't. That said plenty of people use alternate ways to commit suicide. It sounds to me my friend as if you haven't yet mentally dealt with your brothers suicide. Your blaming the gun for the loss of your brother and your mother, not your brother. If a drunk had run him over would you blame the manufacturer of the car? If the shooting was accidental they there might be cause (might) to blame a piece of metal. But maybe it's time to place the blame where it should go?

  I'm sorry for your loss, I have 3 brothers and even though 2 of them don't speak to me right now I know it would be terrible to lose any of them.
• 

  hillbilly

  The OK Corral, Tombstone, AT. It was not anarchy (like many assume an "armed society" would be)... it's a story of law enforcment, gun control and cold killers.

  Virgil Earp, City Marshall along with his deputized brothers, Morgan and Wyatt and Doc Holliday are heading for the alley and yard of the local livery. They expect to find drunken gang members of the "Cowboys", Ike Clanton and freinds are members, in that area. The Gang has been drunk and disorderly and armed inspite of town laws requiring arms to be checked.

  Things get a bit muddled in the telling, but it's generally accepted that upon contact with the first Cowboy, someone's iron cleared leather and shots fired. For over 100 years folks have been second guessing the Earp's and the actions taken. It was all over in a matter of seconds. Virgil was wounded and if memory serves, so was Morgan. A couple of the gangsters were dead and wounded.

  I dont know why everyone refers to the OK corral in reference to the negative effects of limited gun control. To gain order in a rowdy, vice- filled town, the local Marshall required that all guns brought into town be checked at his office... to be returned on your trip away from town. The Clantons and other Cowboys were in the serious business of crime and were killers. They didnt check their guns and had been raising hell. The Marshall was doing his duty... to disarm them and take them into custody.

  Back in the 1880's (up into the 20's in some cases) "Town" was the place for some pretty rough men to get a bath, get drunk and get their ashes dumped. Not always in that order. Good sense it was to ask folks like that to leave their iron at the marshall's office for safe keeping. Most honsest good-timers did'nt have trouble with that law...who want's to get shot in town on their party-weekend?

  Later, for revenge, Cowboys took action. Virgil was ambushed, loosing use of his arm...Morgan was shot in the back, killed, shooting pool. Wyatt and Doc, with some help, eventually broke up the Cowboy gang.

  Checking guns in Arizona is still a pretty common practice. Did you know that a few states have virtually no gun laws... when was the last time you read about a big shoot out in Vermont?

  I have to assume that folks in Vermont are no more sane or insane than folks in any othe state. Under the most minimal regulations you can purchase, own, carry and posess justabout any legal firearm with the barest of regulation.

  ~Hill
• 

  sammielee24

  Min - I'm not arguing about what medications work for you or anyone else for your specific illness. Research continues to be done in the area of mental illness as well as behaviour/emotional issues. I do know enough from my own experiences to say that I have known kids who have been hastily diagnosed and then prescribed heavy duty drugs to 'calm' them down so they can focus on the task of hand. My nephews class had 21 of those kids lined up for their daily dose of Ritalin and that class was only 5th grade. There is something wrong with a society that chooses to chemically alter their children in order to make them 'fit in' with our demands.

  This is problem much more prevalent in the USA than any other country and while for some people who are truly ADD and ADHD, those drugs are necessary - there are many more who are diagnosed, labelled and prescribed those drugs than needed. I have family members who were put on drugs for ADHD as young kids - a diagnosis forced on them by the school system because the kids were fidgety. We put chemicals in our water, our food, we get rid of gym class, we can't let our kids bike or hike unsupervised, they can't play at the park without us, we buy them cell phones and cars so they will always be safe, we keep them in the house playing video games, watching television or chatting on the computer, we run fast as we try to keep up with our jobs, our finances, our own lives and we expect our kids to keep up as well - we schedule our kids so they are entertained. I don't doubt for a moment that you or others have been diagnosed accurately and must utilize what works for you in regards to medicines or therapies - I'm simply pointing out that many children are misdiagnosed and medicated for our convenience. We want them to fit into our hectic adult world and we expect them to behave, sit still, focus - just like we adults do.

  Even so, this discussion was not about this topic - although as far as I am aware, the parents of some of our past school shootings have and continue to question the role that prescribed medications may contributed to their sons actions. Over all, I try and remember that the USA has 300 million people in it and these shootings appear to happen randomly. I don't know if any answer we have will ever fix the problem because we never know what causes the actions in every case. sammieswife.

  The point is that 85% of the world's use of these types of drugs for ADD and ADHD are prescribed in THIS country, and 90% of those are being given to boys. There is NO research data to support the idea that we are somehow right and everyone else is wrong; in fact, if anything, just the opposite exists.

  To compare these subjective overprescriptions to cancer medications is silly. No one had suggested that truly needy individuals be denied these drugs, but we have known since 1975 that labratory animals, when given the choice between Ritalin and Cocaine, make NO distinction between the two, and our use of the drug has SKYROCKETED since then despite the absence of decent research about the long-term effects of these drugs' use on individuals.

  K Wallace, PHD