Bethel layoffs in 2008 - 300+ and counting

by sir82 139 Replies latest jw friends

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  mcsemike

  Dear BabaYaga:

  I just read your post. I also wanted to thank you for your kindness. I wanted people to know some of the details so that if anything similar happened to them, or they knew someone who had suffered, they might be able to help them. I mean no offense to those who believe in God, but I could never believe in the WT's Jehovah. If there is a God, he in not the way the JW's explain him. I gag just reading the Old Testament. My recovery was aided by friends (the few left to me), my fleshly family who never believed the JW's, research, and self-applied therapy. I needed it sooner than I thought.

  After they separated from me, I lost my job a week later. Shortly after that, my mother died. Then my 101-year-old grandmother died. Then 8 more uncles, cousins, etc. My daughter and my mother were very close and her death made my daughter spiral down. Hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical care. We paid. My wife and daughter went to a different hall. I'm glad they are happy if that's their choice, but I cannot do it. My strength was finally developed from within, not from the WT.

  I also wanted to clear up one point. When I listed my accomplishments and abilities, it was not to brag. I was adding to the point in the thread about how many people gave up very good careers, either financially or those that would have made them happy. I realize now that we could have had a paid off home, a few kids, and my wife staying home with them. I'm sure the molestation would not have occurred if she had been home with 3 or 4 kids to watch. I don't look down on people's jobs. If a person would have been a manager at McDonald's and could support his family, but instead worked the register and went broke, then I think he should become a manager. People have the right to support themselves. And as many have noted, most Bethel "retirees" have problems finding work in the world.

  My sympathy goes out to ALL who have suffered because of the WT's lunacy. I hope everyone can heal and find a measure of peace in their lives. I strongly suggest that if anyone is in a bad way, they contact a professional who can assist them. There have been suicides by victims and/or parents because the child blames himself for the abuse and the parents blame themselves for not seeing it. I know of one teenage boy in England who reported to the elders that a MS molested him. The MS denied it and the boy was DF'd for gossip and a "homosexual act". CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT??????.

  He went to the police and the congregation trashed his name and his life. But the police weren't fooled. The molester in now in jail. I just wanted to show at least one incident of the type of behavior exhibited by the WT, yet defended by the ones still going to meetings willingly or those who post sick and twisted comments concerning this issue and the WT's conduct. Again, Silent Lambs helps many to heal. I posted regularly for years.

  I'm now shunned and haven't seen my daughter in three years nor heard her voice. She graduated high school (I was told if I showed up, they'd leave) and she got her driver's license and started college. I missed all this and cannot get it back. This is the price we all pay for following our hearts and the Bible instead of a cult that is run like the Marines who first consult with the Pharisees. I bet Russell is turning over in his grave. (No, JW's, he is NOT in Heaven being crowned as a special guy.)

  Again, I hope anyone in pain will find solace and peace someday.
• 

  BabaYaga

  McseMike... I am so sorry to hear that after all of that, you have no contact with your daughter. I know it is excruciatingly painful, but don't give up hope. She may listen to her own mind and heart one day... just as her father did.
  
  Love and strength to you,
  Baba.
• 

  horrible life

  Again, I hope anyone in pain will find solace and peace someday.

  Mcsemike, to you also. My last patient of the day, today, was an 8 year old girl. She was so cute, came from school, to her appointment. Very smart, and loved going to the dentist. I thought of your daughter. I thought of my daughter.

  If the WT, would just let the court system handle the bast@rds, this would be a huge step, in the right direction.

  It has been shown, by Drs, very educated people, researchers, and pedophiles themselves, that they are never cured. They remain a danger to society, especially children, forever.

  How can a corporation, who communicates with its people, through a magazine, train men, to trust what a pedophile says, and will do, in the future? The pedophiles, in this case, are the professionals. They are the smart ones. He KNOWS what he is doing, and has worked at perfecting his trade.
  Does the WT profess to be more informed than the highly trained professionals?

  It just baffles my mind. We know an alcoholic can't be cured. He keeps away from it. People do not dangle a bottle in front of him. He can relapse at any second. Could you EVER trust a child molester? A child, just walking past him, is taunting, to him. How could the WT keep this away from the authorities, on purpose? Unbelievable.
• 

  SnakesInTheTower

  horrible life:

  Get another guy (2) to put the boxes on a pallet

  Don't be surprised if this job isn't eliminated next. In summer of 2007, I took a tour of the Celestial Seasonings tea factory in Boulder, Colorado (ironically, just down the street from a KH...lol). On the tour, I observed a machine that sucked up the cases of tea off the line, rotated the pallet, placed the case on the pallet, and then sucked another case off the line, dropped the case perfectly on the pallet, rotated the pallet....perfectly stacked, perfectly alternating layers of cases of tea. When the pallet was full, the pallet was shrink wrapped and moved away, and another put in its place. The robot had "eyes" that could tell if something was not lined up....and "knew" which way to place the cases..... little or no human intervention needed.. pretty cool..unless you were the guy/gal whose job(s) was(were) replaced by it...

  So as Bethell gets even more efficient..just think...for every 10 people laid off, another table not needed in the Dining room....another 20 people laid off, another 10 rooms not needing cleaning....less cooks, less servers, less laundry means less laundry jobs (a lot of which has been automated)....the dominos fall and the jobs go away exponentially.....

  I think the last buildings to be sold in Brooklyn will be the 25 Columbia Heights building and the 90 Sands building...unless the GB want to keep it as a "headquarters" presence only..... WT has a ton of unused property at Patterson..... more than they will ever need....

  last Bethell tour I took (in London 2006) wasn't too exciting...I can't imagine how empty the place is now.....

  Snakes ()
• 

  mcsemike

  Hi Everyone: I wanted to thank all of you for your support and comments to our "troll". I could have out-argued him just as you all did, but I can't see wasting time on an idiot. Your answers are better than mine. My professional training has to live next to my Sicilian anger and righteous indignation. God and Jesus got mad, why can't we??

  I truly care about people but have no patience for someone who is playing me and wasting time. Proplog (sp?) doesn't want to learn the real story, he wants to agitate the pot and bait us. I won't brag for myself. All of you are very smart and your answers and reasoning proved it. You also bring a fresh approach to the issue.

  We all know that the WT is NOT God's people. There may be a God (although I can never accept him or believe in him for allowing all the suffering on this planet no matter what his reason). But I highly respect anyone else's belief. We are all different and we respect each other. Why? Because we listen to facts and reason things out. If someone is wrong on a black and white issue, others kindly steer him to another way of thinking. Maybe he'll see the light. But Prop was not interested in learning anything new. He was interesting in wasting our time, hoping to get a few of us to go back to the WT (I'd kill myself first) and also doing this for his own amusement. I won't threaten to assault a 62 year old man even though I'm almost 58 myself. But someday he'll mouth off where a father has just discovered his child raped by a JW and then he'll take Propboy out for good.

  I'm Sicilian and proud of it. We don't take people's crap. Tolerance is for when all the facts are not in yet. But once they are, and a person won't look at them, yet claims to have the truth and attacks my daughter's morality or my care for her safety, then I'll go after him.

  The very idea that we were negligent. A CO could have had a girl in his car while 2 brothers went to a door and he could have molested her. They are sick from the GB down. (I assume most of you know about the homosexual GB members.) All I have to hear from him now is that I didn't care about her and I'll punch his nose in. I'm sorry for the violence, but this cost us a quarter of a million dollars and my health. The man who molested her got SIX months in county jail. I could have had him killed right in prison but I spared his life. I knew he'd molest again and he did. Now his family and some JW's are eating humble pie. Did I get one apology?? NOT A GOD DAMN CHANCE!!! Why?? The WT never makes mistakes. Right???

  I read all your comments with moist eyes. There is more love here than any place in the WT. Everyone knows I have a temper. Some elders told me they would kill anyone who molested their daughter so why can't I desire that? All of you have excused my sometimes violent comments because you understand the pain. She was my only child. My future has died. I will not see her married, nor will I see my grandchildren. All the reasons that make old age worth putting up with are the children. I won't have any. I wanted to teach her to drive. No. I wanted to teach her the piano since she showed much talent and it runs in our family. She could have been a concert pianist. She said no. I wanted her to learn German, to play the flute, dancing, and deaf sign language. Again, no.

  We may have spent a few pages more on Proplog the Brain Donor deserved, but I think he'll think twice before doing this again. If he shows up again, I won't use a squirt gun. The nuclear missiles come out. (Just a metaphor, I'm not nuts. But honestly, haven't any of you wished once just for a second that you could smack someone stupid?) Also, any lurkers learned a lot about brown nosers with the WT.

  I've read every single book the WT published since the 1920's. I had them all. I saw the changes, I saw Ray Franz try to bring some sanity into the GB. But the old guard, like Teddy Jer-ass won't give up their jobs. Where else in the world would any manager put up with the shitty nose in the air attitudes of the top men at Bethel? I would fire them the same day. I've seen them on tape being interviewed by Silent Lambs and the arrogance is astounding. (Watch the one that the Australian elder does when asked by the news people why he didn't report.) He said, real smart, "are you hard of hearing?" I would have said, "No, I'm not, because I just heard you hit the pavement." (Sorry, couldn't resist.) Humor, lampooning the blowfish (pun intended) in Bethel, and the occasional threats seem to work very well. One troll was terrorizing a thread once and I told him I had relatives in NYC. He never did it again.

  I love children as I'm sure all of you do. Many injuries occur here. First, the child is traumitized. Next the parents are accused. Then the elders learn that lying is okay with Jehovah. (I believe that, when they die, they'll find out it's not okay.) Thank you all again for your GENUINE LOVE, something the WT wouldn't recognize if it bit them in the ass.

  Ask yourselves a question: (Reagan asked it of Carter, and it cost Carter the election.) "ARE YOU HAPPIER NOW THAT YOU'VE LEFT THIS CULT COMPARED TO WHEN YOU WERE A PART OF IT." I think that you answer will allow me to say to the WT "I rest my case."

  I know their lawyers will come after me when I publish my book. I hope they do. I have newspaper people friends all over. I'll keep everyone informed.

  Again, your defense of me and putting that idiot with an IQ of a potted plant in his place, was very much appreciated. This is the first thread I've ever posted on that thrashed someone who was a liar and scumbag.

  Good health to all. Michael.
• 

  proplog2

  I left this thread because I'm not of a temperament to engage in unending sessions of personal attacks. Some discussions just aren't productive. And I especially avoid prolonged discussions with someone who says he can barely contain his violent temper. I am a civilized human. I'm not impressed or frightened by chest beating. I have been known to change my mind when I am exposed to good argumentation where premises are laid out and backed by facts that make the conclusion unavoidable.
  
  I have seen nothing like that on this thread.
  
  But there is something even more insidious going on here. The complete acquiescence on the part of so many observers is unforgivable. That loud silence has made me realize that this really isn't a place I want to be.
  
  So, celebrate. I am not just leaving this thread. After almost 7 years I am leaving this board.
  
  A lot of my old posts might come in handy in early March of this year. You might want to download some of them while this board is still around.
• 

  Vinny

  I have no read any of this. But I do know Proplog has been defending the JW policies as of late. That is, he has been TRYING to defend the JW policies as of late.
  
  I can respect alternative views on most any subject, Proplog. But this is an (((EX)))-JW site. And many here have been badly burned by these controlling, family breaking, unscriptural, judgmental, deadly sorry JW policies.
  
  If you are going to defend these sorry JW policies then, just be sure you are prepared. I have not seen you successfully defend even one as of yet.
  
  And now you want to run away altogether. In my opinion, that would be because you CAN'T defend these sorry policies. Which is why many of us have left the JW's altogether. Neither could we.
  
  Many of the JW policies are just that bad.
  
  Happy Trails!
  
  vinny
• 

  Alligator Wisdom

  proplog2, we know you'll be back. Whether you post or not, you'll still come here and at least read. I for one hope that you stay to post.

  So, celebrate. I am not just leaving this thread. After almost 7 years I am leaving this board.

  And yes, seven years ago you said the same thing.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/7789/1.ashx

  ***********************************************************************************************************************

  Now, let's get back on topic.

  Does anyone know if these layoffs are only occuring in NY? What about other Bethel branches worldwide?

  Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously)
• 

  bluesapphire

  x
• 

  blondie

  I will make it clear that if and when I knew about pedophiles in and outside the congregation, I told the police. If people are dangerous to children, I tell their parents. Unfortunately, so many pedophiles are family members, not strangers. The best thing to do is to work with the police and legal choices in your area. Many states require reporting. Have you checked to to see what the laws are in your state. My father was a pedophile and I made sure everyone I could tell, knew that. He had been reproved judicially and the elders knew and could protect their own children, but did not protect the children of others in the congregation or neighborhood.