Ah yes. And so it is - more people are thrown out of Bethel - and under the bus by the Watchtower society. As some have said , I too feel it is a cost cutting measure to save $$$ . What with child abuse lawsuit costs and all - what's a corporation to do these days ? tisk, tisk. What was the name of that song ? Money, Money Money - Money !? I too feel sad these people have wasted their lives there. Perhaps the bitterness over being ejected by Bethel will wake some of them up to leave the witness cult
Bethel layoffs in 2008 - 300+ and counting
by sir82 139 Replies latest jw friends
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cognac
Oh, well... I wonder what that's all about...
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GoingGoingGone
People start over again all the time. It probably keeps the mind agile and delays senility.
People do not start over "all the time." But if someone does lose their job at the age of 50, there's a chance they at least have skills and a 401K plan to take with them. The Bethelites tossed out on their ears now find themselves with no home, no job, no kids, and many times with no marketable skills either. Ever see the fear on the face of a 40 or 50-something year old bethel couple when they get the note that they've been "reassigned'? Didn't think so...
It's mostly a matter of attitude. And your attitude is a personal choice.
Trusting that Jehovah would take care of them after giving him a lifetime of service is a personal choice too. Oops, guess that didn't work out too well.....
GGG
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proplog2
If any of you were arguing in good faith you would answer this question:
Are discharged members just thrown out into the street? Or are there arrangements that are made for as smooth a transition as possible. I don't know. Perhaps one of you experts on this subject can outline the procedure. Or maybe you don't know either. In which case why don't you call Bethel out of concern and find out how this all works.
I'm not going to do it. Because I don't have a problem with how the Watchtower runs its affairs. But for people to accuse the Watchtower of behaving unethically and immorally I think you ought to at least make a case for it based on actual policy.
To fail to do this suggests that you are arguing in bad faith.
You are afraid your negative opinions will be altered by reality. Sounds like the other side of the proverbial coin. -
blondie
Publication 517 2001 Tax Year Social Security Coverage
The services you perform in the exercise of your ministry are covered by social security and Medicare under SECA. Your earnings for these services are subject to self-employment tax (SE tax) unless one of the following applies.
- You are a member of a religious order who has taken a vow of poverty.
- You ask the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) for an exemption from SE tax for your services and the IRS approves your request. See Exemption From Self-Employment (SE) Tax, later.
- You are subject only to the social security laws of a foreign country under the provisions of a social security agreement between the United States and that country. For more information, see Binational Social Security (Totalization) Agreements in Publication 54.
Your earnings that are not from the exercise of your ministry may be subject to social security tax under FICA or SECA according to the rules that apply to taxpayers in general. See Qualified Services, later.
Ministers
If you are a minister of a church, your earnings for the services you perform in your capacity as a minister are subject to SE tax unless you have requested and received an exemption. See Exemption From Self-Employment (SE) Tax, later. These earnings are subject to SE tax whether you are an employee of your church or a self-employed person under the common law rules. For the specific services covered, see Qualified Services, later.
Ministers Defined
Ministers are individuals who are duly ordained, commissioned, or licensed by a religious body constituting a church or church denomination. They are given the authority to conduct religious worship, perform sacerdotal functions, and administer ordinances or sacraments according to the prescribed tenets and practices of that church or denomination.
If a church or denomination ordains some ministers and licenses or commissions others, anyone licensed or commissioned must be able to perform substantially all the religious functions of an ordained minister to be treated as a minister for social security purposes.
Employment Status for Other Tax Purposes
Even though you are considered a self-employed individual in performing your ministerial services for social security tax purposes, you may be considered an employee for income tax or retirement plan purposes. For income tax or retirement plan purposes, some of your income may be considered self-employment income and other income may be considered wages.
Common-law employee. Under common law rules, you are considered either an employee or a self-employed person depending on all the facts and circumstances. Generally, you are an employee if your employer has the legal right to control both what you do and how you do it, even if you have considerable discretion and freedom of action. For more information about the common-law rules, get Publication 15-A, Employer's Supplemental Tax Guide.
If you are employed by a congregation for a salary, you are generally a common-law employee and income from the exercise of your ministry is considered wages for income tax purposes. However, amounts received directly from members of the congregation, such as fees for performing marriages, baptisms, or other personal services, are considered self-employment income.
Example. A church hires and pays you a salary to perform ministerial services subject to its control. Under the common-law rules, you are an employee of the church while performing those services.
Form SS-8. If you are not certain whether you are an employee or a self-employed person, you can get a determination from the IRS by filing Form SS-8.
Members of Religious Orders
If you are a member of a religious order who has not taken a vow of poverty, your earnings for qualified services you performed as a member of the order are subject to SE tax. See Qualified Services, later. This does not apply if you have requested and received an exemption as discussed under Exemption From Self-Employment (SE) Tax, later.
Vow of poverty. If you are a member of a religious order who has taken a vow of poverty, you are exempt from paying SE tax on your earnings for qualified services (defined later) you perform as an agent of your church or its agencies. For income tax purposes, the earnings are tax free to you. Your earnings are considered the income of the religious order.
Services covered under FICA at the election of the order. Even if you have taken a vow of poverty, the services you perform for your church or its agencies may be covered under social security. Your services are covered if your order, or an autonomous subdivision of the order, elects social security coverage for its current and future vow-of-poverty members.
The order or subdivision elects coverage by filing Form SS-16. It can elect coverage for certain vow-of-poverty members for a retroactive period of up to 20 calendar quarters before the quarter in which it files the certificate. If the election is made, the order or subdivision pays both the employer's and employee's share of the tax. You do not pay.
Services performed outside the order. Even if you are a member of a religious order who has taken a vow of poverty and are required to turn over to the order amounts you earn, your earnings are subject to federal income tax withholding and employment (FICA) tax if you:
- Work for an organization outside your religious community, and
- Perform work that is not required by, or done on behalf of, the order.
In this case, you are considered an employee of that outside organization. You may, however, be able to take a charitable deduction for the amount you turn over to the order. See Publication 526, Charitable Contributions.
Lay employees. Lay employees are generally covered by social security. But see Election to Exclude Church Employees From FICA Coverage, later, under Religious Workers.
Rulings. Organizations and individuals may request rulings from the IRS on whether they are religious orders, or members of a religious order, respectively, for FICA tax, SE tax, and federal income tax withholding purposes. To request a ruling, follow the procedures in Revenue Procedure 2001-1, which is published in Internal Revenue Bulletin 2001-1.
You can read this Revenue Procedure at most IRS offices or, if you have a personal computer, visit the IRS on the Internet at www.irs.gov and select Tax Info For You.
To subscribe to the Bulletin, you can order it on the Internet at http://bookstore.gpo.
gov/irs. You can also write to:
Superintendent of Documents
P.O. Box 371954
Pittsburgh, PA 15250-7954. -
Honesty
Bethel is under no obligation to keep you there if they don't have work for you or if you represent a possible insurance liability. Maybe some kind of disaster is going to hit New York City in the near future. Only a hateful person would use such ordinary behavior to slam JW's. Kind of like Judas worrying about the money box.
You would make a good Governing Body member, proplog. Have you applied yet?
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GoingGoingGone
"Jehovah's organization" accepts decades of volunteer labor from dedicated servants, with the implied promise that they will be cared for when they become old and no longer able to contribute as much. After spending decades at Bethel, many of these people have counted on being there for the rest of their lives.
Does the WTS make arangements for as smooth a transition as possible? Isn't that beside the point? They are throwing these people to the curb in the interest of the bottom line.
The cases I know of personally: One single guy, in his 30s. Now lives at home with his parents and works as a waiter. One widowed guy, in his 60s. His Bethel skills weren't marketable... he had no way to support himself, no health insurance, nowhere to live. He married quickly (desperation I think) and is now in a miserable marriage, doing cleaning jobs. One married couple in their 40s who moved in with her parents, he's unemployed and she's working at Burger King. They're both pioneering. I feel most sorry for the 60-something year old.
If a smooth transition consists of sending married, middle-aged adults back to live with their parents, then I guess they're doing a great job.
GGG
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startingover
I always wondered what the purpose of requiring them to take a vow of poverty. Now suddenly I know after reading Blondie's post. Somehow I thought it was for the benefit of the volunteer...WRONG!!!
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garybuss
The Watch Tower Corporation advocates against me and my family's best interests. The corporation and the people who work there by their own free will choice are my enemies. I'm glad some workers are getting shafted. Good! I'd shaft em myself if I could.
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Eliveleth
Are discharged members just thrown out into the street? Or are there arrangements that are made for as smooth a transition as possible. I don't know. Perhaps one of you experts on this subject can outline the procedure. Or maybe you don't know either. In which case why don't you call Bethel out of concern and find out how this all works.
Proplog,
I know of two cases personally of members of the Bethel family's smooth transitions. One is Ray Franz. When he left (was thrown out) of Bethel, he was 70 years old. He went to work for a JW brother who owned a large grocery warehouse. He did yard work!!! When the brothers in the local congregation saw him having lunch with this kind brother one day, they disfellowshipped him too.
Another was a man in his 70s called Ed Dunlap. He was one of the writers who collaborated on the James book and the Aid to Bible Understanding. When he was asked to leave Bethel,his brother (also a JW) gave him a job with his wallpaper business, hanging wallpaper! His brother was also disfellowshipped for giving him a job. Neither of the men or their wives had children. They had worked for decades at Bethel. They had no where to go except for the kindness of people they knew. I am sure if they had known what problems their employment would have caused their brothers, they would have been reluctant to have even considered working for them.
Both of these men have since seen the unkindness and error of the Watchtower Governing Body and have left the organization. You cannot help but see that the organization is totally devoted to only their interests and not that of anyone who has devoted their lives to working for them.
Love and hugs,
Velta