by Anti-Christ 104 Replies latest jw experiences
LtCmd, thanks for you patience & understanding; I really wasn't avoiding the questions, just stating that my answers will appear totally ridiculous unless one KNOWS it's the Word of God.
How in the world can you reaaly be an Athiest? The WTBS turn you off THAT much? Or did science convince you that Evolution is a fact?
Mad
Abandoned wrote: "Plus, you still haven't answered my question. Why was god so violent in the old testament? How can I learn, as you say, if you don't answer the question? | |
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Mad writes: It doesn't seem like you really want to learn, A; when one doesn't understand something, a wise man asks questions, rather than ridicule. God was violent in the 'Old Testament', for the same reason His Son will be at Armageddon ('New Testament')- to eliminate corruption.He did it with His own people Israel- after BEGGING them to turn from their evil ways- that he has NO JOY in putting a wicked person to death. His Son won't either- but it will HAVE to be done, or man will murder, mangle, rape & destroy till the "Sun Goes Out!".
Hello Brother Mad Brother,
It's always a pleasure.
Here's a question to inform your questions. If all of the sacred texts of all religions were in some way lost without the means to reproduce them, would any deity be so obviously existent and involved in the affairs of humanity that all thinking, intelligent persons would accept it's/his/her godship without debate? Illustration: If all scientific documentation of the theory of gravity were lost, in short order the theory could be rewritten based on unbiased, universal experience.
Nvr
Mad writes: It doesn't seem like you really want to learn, A; when one doesn't understand something, a wise man asks questions, rather than ridicule. God was violent in the 'Old Testament', for the same reason His Son will be at Armageddon ('New Testament')- to eliminate corruption.He did it with His own people Israel- after BEGGING them to turn from their evil ways- that he has NO JOY in putting a wicked person to death. His Son won't either- but it will HAVE to be done, or man will murder, mangle, rape & destroy till the "Sun Goes Out!".
Ok, maybe but the people of Israel had absolute proof no reason to doubt(according to the OT) that all of their techings were from God, we don't. If God is all powerful, loving and He does not want anybody to be distroyed why does His word have so many contradictions and is so ambiguous? I wish you would have a litle more faith in humanity.Yes we did do a lot of nasty things but we have done a lot of great things and we are still doing great things.
I'm saving that list.
LtCmd.Lore
I have more.
metaphorically sick people do sick things, enough sick people make a sick society.
So I get what you're saying but if we are all "sick" it is not of our free will, we did not choose this sickness but we suffer the consequences. An all powerful, all Knowing, loving and just God could have created a universe where humans would not have inherited imperfection and every human could have the chance to make a choice without a tendency towards evil.
How in the world can you reaaly be an Athiest? The WTBS turn you off THAT much? Or did science convince you that Evolution is a fact?
Acctualy the WTBTS has pretty much nothing to do with my atheism... I had a relatively good JW experience compared to most of the other people on this board. And although I am pretty sure of evolution, it is not what made me an atheist. I'm an atheist because I don't believe in god. I think that a claim so great as an omnipotent entity should be proven instead of accepted as the default.
I cannot prove that god does not exist. But I'm pretty sure you can't prove fairies exist.
I accept the fact that there could theoretically be an extremely superior creature out there somewhere, but I have so little evidence to support that theory that it would be foolish of me to base my life on that belief.
God was violent in the 'Old Testament', for the same reason His Son will be at Armageddon ('New Testament')- to eliminate corruption.He did it with His own people Israel- after BEGGING them to turn from their evil ways- that he has NO JOY in putting a wicked person to death. His Son won't either- but it will HAVE to be done, or man will murder, mangle, rape & destroy till the "Sun Goes Out!"
I can understand that. I have no problem with god killing wicked people. But what about the people that weren't wicked that died in the flood for example? Like the children... are you telling me that every single child, even the ones under age 10 was evil enough to die? (And the animals too I suppose, but I frankly don't care much about them.)
And, if they must die, then why be so violent about it? Surely an all powerfull god could find a much nicer way to kill people than with a flood. That would be a slow and terrifying death. (As mothers carried their little children up a steep mountain, trying to climb faster than the rising water, only to reach the top exhausted and realize that the water is still rising, the mother tries to swim, carrying her dying toddler through the water, only to drown after a long battle for their lives.)
If I had the power, and I HAD to kill people, it would be a quick and painless death. (Plus I'm sure Noah wouldn't have minded being saved the trouble of building an ark.)
LtCmd.Lore
Something I think you will enjoy. "In the fundamentalist view, unbelievers have only two relevant attributes: They are potential converts and sources of temptation. As objects of evangelism, they are called 'crops to be harvested,' 'sheep to be found,' and 'fish to be netted.' Because of the danger of worldly influence (much like a contagious disease), relationships with 'them' must be handled gingerly. Contacts must be superficial, geared toward evangelism only, and cut short if there is not a positive response. Since Christians are already full of truth, there is no need for them to listen, nothing for them to learn, and much for them to lose by admitting alternative views into their consciousness." Marlene Winell, Leaving the Fold (Oakland, CA: New Harbinger, 1993), pp. 76-77.
Some more food for thought:
MT 4:1-11, MK 1:12-13 Immediately following his Baptism, Jesus spent forty days in the wilderness resisting temptation by the Devil.
JN 2:1-11 Three days after the Baptism, Jesus was at the wedding in Cana.
MT 4:18-20, MK 1:16-18 (One story about choosing Peter as a disciple.)
LK 5:2-11 (A different story.)
JN 1:35-42 (Still another story.)
MT 5:1 - 7:29 Jesus delivers his most noteworthy sermon while on the mount.
LK 6:17-49 Jesus delivers his most noteworthy sermon while on the plain. (Note: No such sermons are mentioned in either MK or JN and Paul seems totally unfamiliar with either the sermon on the mount or the sermon on the plain.)
MT 5:16 Good works should be seen.
MT 6:1-4 They should be kept secret.
MT 7:21, LK 10:36-37, RO 2:6, 13, JA 2:24 We are justified by works, not by faith.
JN 3:16, RO 3:20-26, EP 2:8-9, GA 2:16 We are justified by faith, not by works.
MT 8:5-12 The centurion himself approaches Jesus to ask to heal his servant.
LK 7:2-10 The centurion sends elders to do the asking.
MT 8:28-33 Two demoniacs are healed in the Gadarene swine incident.
MK 5:2-16, LK 8:26-36 One demoniac is healed in this incident.
MT 8:5-12 The centurion himself approaches Jesus to ask to heal his servant.
LK 7:2-10 The centurion sends elders to do the asking.MT 10:2, MK 3:16-19 The twelve apostles (disciples) were: Simon (Peter), Andrew his brother, James the son of Zebedee, John his brother, Philip, Bartholemew, Thomas, Matthew the tax collector, James the son of Alphaeus, Thaddaeus (Labbaeus), Simon, and Judas Iscariot.
LK 6:13-16 The above except that Thaddaeus (Labbaeus) is excluded, and Judas the son of James is added (and Judas Iscariot remains).
MT 12:30 Jesus says that those who are not with him are against him.
MK 9:40 Jesus says that those who are not against him are for him.
(Note: This puts those who are indifferent or undecided in the "for him" category in the first instance and in the "against him" category in the second instance.)
MT 5:37, 15:19, MK 7:22, JN 8:14, 44, 14:6, 18:37 Jesus says that you should answer a plain "yes" or "no," that his purpose is to bear witness to the truth, and that his testimony is true. He equates lying with evil.
JN 7:2-10 Jesus tells his brothers that he is not going to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Tabernacles, then later goes secretly by himself. (Note: The words "not yet" were added to some versions at JN 7:8 in order to alleviate this problem. The context at JN 7:10 makes the deception clear, however.)
MT 17:1-2 The Transfiguration occurs six days after Jesus foretells his suffering.
LK 9:28-29 It takes place about eight days afterwards.
MT 21:2-6, MK 11:2-7, LK 19:30-35 The disciples follow Jesus instructions and bring him the animal (or animals, in the case of MT).
JN 12:14 Jesus finds the animal himself.
MT 21:7 Jesus rides two animals during his triumphal entry.
MK 11:7, LK 19:35, JN 12:14 Only one animal is involved.
MT 26:14-25, MK 14:10-11, LK 22:3-23 Judas made his bargain with the chief priests before the meal.
JN 13:21-30 After the meal.
MT 26:20-29, MK 14:17-28, JN 13:21-30 Jesus forecasts his betrayal prior to the communion portion of the supper.
LK 22:14-23 After the communion portion.
MT 26:26-29, MK 14:22-25 The order of the communion was: bread, then wine.
LK 22:17-20 It was: wine, then bread.
MT 26:49-50, MK 14:44-46 Jesus is betrayed by Judas with a kiss, then seized.
LK 22:47-48 Jesus anticipates Judas' kiss. No actual kiss is mentioned.
JN 18:2-9 Jesus voluntarily steps forward to identify himself making it completely unnecessary for Judas to point him out. No kiss is mentioned.
AC 9:7 Those present at Paul's conversion heard the voice but saw no one.
AC 22:9 They saw a light but did not hear a voice.
AC 9:7 Those present at Paul's conversion stood.
AC 26:14 They fell to the ground.
RO 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor anything that might cause your brother to stumble or be offended.
CN 2:16 Let no one pass judgement on you in matters of food and drink.
