WHAT IS DPI AND FESC(WHATEVER?)
Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.
And that voids all the arguments you could possibly make against the WTS.
Except the argument I made. My argument would stand as an accusation against them EVEN IF there was no Criteria for Association. Go back and answer it, thirdwitness. Stop making lying claims that can be easily disproven.
My argument is NOT voided by your hypothetical situation.
Which hypothetical construct is completely beside the fact that the initial application would have been accompanied by a brochure, AND the receipt of the credentials was accompanied by a welcome package of information (including another brochure). They don't call it "information" just for kicks, you know. If the recipient of the credentials uses the credential, they are acknowledging the information they received in the use. They are an informed associate after the UN/DPI provides them the information. Any claims to ignorance after that point are just silly.
It is more like the telephone company sending you information called a decalaration of Terms of Service; a TOS. If you continue to use the service after receipt of the TOS you acknowledge simply by your continued use that you have agreed to the terms.
But, since my argument that you ignored does not even step into the murky waters of WHO KNEW WHAT AND WHEN, you really need to demonstrate how your hypothetical construct voided my argument.
Again, for your convenience, here is the post with the six questions that have NOTHING to do with your hypothetical scenario:
I know why you won't answer them. So does everyone else reading this thread. I also know why you are waiting for posts to build up between the last time I linked to this post before you posts another piece of idiotic tripe like that hy-pathetic-al Blockbuster membership scenario.
It puts space between the one you can't answer and yourself. Keep up the charade, thirdwitness. The clothes you sewed for your Gods are invisible.
I can't say this enough, it does not matter which papers Watchtower Corp filled out, they still of their own choosing, applied to be a part of the UN. The UN being an orginization repeatedly referred to by Watchtower Corp as being the wild beast that we are not to be a part of.
The Watchtower Corp is guilty of this. Anything else is just splitting hairs.
Witnoid, you are guilty of doing the same thing you accused AlanF of in the other thread. (See parousia definitions) It is so like a JW to accuse somebody of doing something and then doing the same thing when it is convienant for them.
SHOULD MODERATERS LOCK THIRDWITNESS THREADS IF NO CONCRETE ANSWERS ARE FORECOMING?
Since I posed those six unanswered questions, thirdwitness has posted 13 times to this thread. He has already answered question #4 elsewhere, with a yes. He has not answered the others anywhere.
thirdwitness is baiting you into discussing the peripheral stuff that really only made the situation WORSE to distract attention from the initial wrongdoing the WTS committed. If you keep letting him drag you into tangents he will use what you say to effectively muddy the waters for others who read this thread.
The thing is, if the formation of the relationship itself was wrong then it DOESN'T MATTER what the rules for the relationship were.
If the organization (1) is secular, (2) has ANY objectives contrary to the Bible (according to JWs), (3) is under judgement by Jehovah God (according to JWs), (4) is itself disapproved by God (according to JWs), and (5) has other published members that are disapproved by God then the relationship was off-limits in any voluntary sense.
But, the WTS did become part of the United Nations Department of Public Information (UN/DPI). In doing so, they applied for membership. They voluntarily applied to join those disapproved by God. They CHOSE to join the UN/DPI, it was not a requirement of a superior authority. It was 100% optional, they made a conscious and deliberate choice to become part of an organization under judgment by Jehovah God (according to their own dogma).
He knows I have him dead to rights, that is why he avoids that post like the plague. AFTER we discuss what they did wrong in the first place, THEN lets hash out with him the other things that made it even worse. He is trying very hard to focus on the periphery to avoid the heart of the matter.
jayhawk1: they still of their own choosing, applied to be a part of the UN.
They did apply to become part of a secular organization that Jehovah's Witnesses teach has objectives contrary to the Bible, but it was not the UN. It was the UN/DPI. They are not the same thing. But they are both equally secular organizations under judgment by Jehovah God (according to JW dogma), they are both disapproved by God, and the WTS did voluntarily choose to join them.
I know what you meant, but that particular slip-up is like a veritable Godsend to a pedantic fault-finder like thirdwitness. It is the primary way the organizatin has successfully fended off serious investigation of what they did. All they have to say is: "We NEVER joined the UN!" and they are telling the truth when they say that, they never did.
But the waters are muddied and it is a tangle to sort out and the appearance is given that the accuser is parsing words, when ACTUALLY it is the WTS and their defenders who are trying to draw the fineline distinction between the UN and the UN/DPI.
Auldsoul, I know what you are saying, but again, it's splitting hairs. UN or UN/DPI, still part of the whole picture that makes up the Wild Beast according to Watchtower Corp.
That's like saying I am going to fly Delta International or flying Delta Local. You are still flying in an airplane owned by Delta.
I agree COMPLETELY, jayhawk1. However, when discussing this issue with someone who desperately wants the WTS to be cleared of all charges (which is most JWs who hear of it) being precise matters a lot.
The WTS cannot be cleared of the charge of choosing to join the UN/DPI, even through pedantic splitting of hairs.
The WTS can be cleared of the charge of choosing to join the UN, the UN Web site even states specifically that they did not become part of the UN through this membership.
In other words, the WTS can seemingly get off on a technicality while we are screaming "THE UN/DPI IS PART OF THE UN SYSTEM !!!" at the top of our lungs. If we call it wrong the first time we call it, JWs like saki2fifty, who are wanting us to be wrong and the WTS to be right, aren't going to hear a thing we say after that point.
It isn't really like the Delta scenario, unless someone is trying to hold you accountable for having flown Delta when all you did was fly Delta Local. We are really accusing the Watchtower Society of a violation of their own published standards, we are accusing them of gross sin by their own standards. I think it is pretty important to keep the facts unshakably solid in our accusations.
Yes, I ask him
Thirdwitness, what did Mr Hoeffel say when you asked him for evidence that the requirements had not essentially changed?
ThirdWitness comes on here in 2006, YEARS AFTER the story broke and spouts all this information that's old news to most of us. We could access all this info...pre 9/11 on the U.N. website, which is now not available...how convenient for him and others that want proof other than from the "apostates" that have all the information. All the information was copied and is out there for review for anyone truly interested in the truth and not "spin".
AS has done a great job of putting the whole issue in persective and helped me to appreciate how important it is to use the correct terminology...because the WTS was using the fact that we were saying they had joined the UN to their advantage, when they had actually applied for association with the DPI......which is really a play on words and they know it and we know it. But we definately want to have our stuff together, even though they can get away with many cases of double talk. We have one word wrong and we're lying!!! They contradict their own teachings time after time, yet, their excuses always placate the "Stepford Wives" mentality.
What is so ironic to me is that they will be studying the Revelation Book again soon, and going over the same chapters showing how disgusting it is for all those religions (who by the way, were signed up as NGO's/DPI's and were listed right along with the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of NY) to be joining the U.N. in trying to make the world a better place to live. Remember the picture of the Pope at the U.N. conference? Then in the 90's the WTS was right there along with them at the conferences!!! I can only hope that the pages that were sent out to replace the older, out-dated information, will certainly include pictures of the WTS joining the U.N. at some of the conferences.
Swalker (I for one, printed out the entire list of NGO's and made copies for all my family members....I look at it from time to time...just to see the numerous churches and WTS together!)