For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled 601 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • stevenyc
    stevenyc

    This is the reason I bring up Tyre. You believe the entire bible is inerrant, or more specifically the New World Translation. In its inerrancy you also take dates as literal,(apart from the dates you make up). With that in mind you are using Ezekiel to say, as chronological proof, by way of prophecy, that Egypt was destroyed and abandoned for forty years.

    I reminded you that Ezekiel also, in you method, chronologically prophesied that Tyre was destroyed. Not only destroyed, but "Never will you be rebuilt;" by "Here I am bringing against Tyre Neb·u·chad·rez´zar the king of Babylon from the north"

    Then you yourself told us that Ezekiels prophecy was a false prophecy. You said: "


    Alexander made her a bare rock and threw debris into the water to make the causeway; fishermen now spread nets over the site (there is a city of Tyre today, but it is located down the coast from the original Tyre); the old city of Tyre has never been rebuilt, even though a great freshwater spring is located at the site, providing 10,000,000 gallons of water daily. It is still an excellent site today but has never been rebuilt, although many have tried."

    So, who is correct. Ezekiel saying that Nebuchadrezzar, destroyed Tyre, NEVER TO BE REBUILT, or thirdwitness saying it was Alexander.

    steve

  • Genesis
    Genesis

    Hey guys Ive got an idea !


    Well, lets write a book together and call it "the Bile" and we will take things that happened and put them as if they were prophetized. Then we could make "the Bile" a violent book but call this love. And then why not put a wrong chronology in it and add a verse that all that is written is true and from God. Then we could say that those who not follow "the bile" are apostate and will be destroyed. Then we would have fake scholars defending "the bile" because it is written from God cuz it say so and secular history is from Satan...


    "And then Satan created accurate secular chronology and the true God said : I am Jehobah and you must stick to what I say as I have the power to make your flesh full of worm..." The Bile 5:10


    Joff of the "dont insult apostate"class


    ps: Have a nice week folks

  • stevenyc
    stevenyc

    Also, in regard to Tyre, check out this site: http://www.ancientcash.info/page-2/Tyrereferences.html

    It has writings through the ages that show how the original Tyre and the modern day Tyre are one and the same. How its development from a city on land and on sea became one large city.

    steve

  • apocalypse
    apocalypse

    Awayz back I said ...

    "Seriously, it's not even worth debating the thing with this 3rd fella. The minute you pick out the errors and tell people which coconut he hid the twist under (and there's several twists, omissions ad fabrications) then he disappears for a goodly time and re-appears down the road under a new handle to start over on some fresh minds."

    And so it has come true. Third dummy has done a disappearing act after failing to address directly the questions put to him.

    And so it goes with all dummies who refuse to accept the truth.

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    Warning... LONG POST! Replying to the entire article.

    Most secular historians point to 587/586-B.C.E. as the date for the desolation of Jerusalem, and many pages that have been written to prove this is true. But the question for Christians is; What does the Bible say? Can the Bible prove or disprove either date? Let’s take a closer look using Bible prophecies and events.

    Actually most secular historians say 587, and the bible points quite definitely to that year. See my previous posts on this issue.

    When Did Nebuchadnezzar’s Reign Begin?
    Most historians agree that 539-B.C.E. is the date of the overthrow of Babylon, for there is much evidence pointing to this. So, it is called an absolute date. However, secular historians says that Babylon’s king (Nebuchadnezzar) began his reign in 605-B.C.E., while the Bible seems to indicate that his reign began in 625-B.C.E. What accounts for the 20-year discrepancy?

    The Watchtower Society accepts an astronomical diary, which they elsewhere state as unreliable, for placing the dates of the reign of Cambyses II, from which it accepts the derived dates of Cyrus’ reign. See my previous posts on this issue.

    Notice that the Bible says (at Jeremiah 52:12-14), ‘In the fifth month, on the tenth day of the month, that is, [in] the nineteenth year of King Nebuchadrezzar, the king of Babylon,
    NebuZaradan the chief of the bodyguard, who was standing before the king of Babylon, came into Jerusalem. And he proceeded to burn the house of Jehovah and the house of the king and all the houses of Jerusalem; and every great house he burned with fire. And all the walls of Jerusalem, round about, all the military forces of the Chaldeans that were with the chief of the bodyguard pulled down.’

    Interestingly, comparing the mention of “19th year” at Jeremiah 52:12-14 with the non-Jeremiaic interpolated reference to “18th year” at verse 29 proves that Jeremiah counted the accession year as a regnal year, confirming that there is no conflict between Daniel 1:1 and Jeremiah 25:1, which both refer to the same regnal year of Jehoiakim.

    The Bible shows that the Jews returned to their homeland in the first year of King Cyrus, which would have been 537-B.C.E. So, we arrive at 607-B.C.E. for the start of the desolation of Jerusalem by counting 70 years back from 537-B.C.E. (using the prophecy of the 70-years of Jerusalem’s desolation). And since the destruction occurred in Nebuchadnezzar’s 19th year, if we count 18 years back from 607-B.C.E., this shows us that the date when Nebuchadnezzar began his rule was 625-B.C.E.

    Ezra and Cyrus agree that the Jews were home in Cyrus’ first year, and Cyrus’ first year was quite definitely 538, not 537. See my previous posts on this issue.

    Now, secular historians (who calculate their dates by how long each Babylonian King reigned) count back from what they think is the 19th year of Nebuchadnezzar’s reign (539-B.C.E.) and conclude that 587-B.C.E. was the year that Jerusalem was desolated. However, the Bible leaves us no doubt that they are wrong. Let us show you why.

    The Society accepts the methods used by secular historians for dating of Cyrus’ capture of Babylon, based indirectly on Cambyses 2. The bible does not at all support 607, and can be completely reconciled with the known history of the period without making any concessions whatsoever.

    Jerusalem Uninhabited for Seventy Years
    The simple reason for concluding that 607-B.C.E. is the correct date can be found at Daniel 9:1, 2, which reads, ‘It was during the first year of the reign of Darius, the son of Ahasuerus from the seed of the Medes, who ruled over the kingdom of the Chaldeans, that I DanYel came to understand the number of the years from the words that [Jehovah] had given to the Prophet JeremJah, for there he prophesied that Jerusalem would lie desolate for seventy years.’

    Daniel ‘coming to understand’ the meaning of the seventy years does not at all identify the exact end point of such period. Daniel 5:26-31 quite pointedly indicates the judgement of Babylon’s king foretold at Jeremiah 25:12.

    That this period is true is confirmed in the record at 2 Chronicles 36:20, 21, where we read, ‘Then he carried off everyone who was left to Babylon, where they served as slaves for him and his sons until the Medes came along and fulfilled the words of [Jehovah] through Jeremiah, and the land had observed its Sabbaths. For, during the seventy years that the land lay desolate, it was observing the Sabbath.’

    Jeremiah 52:30 makes it evident that some were left after Jerusalem’s destruction, and Ezekiel 40:1 makes it clear that the primary exile was several years prior to Jerusalem’s destruction. With those facts in mind, 2 Chronicles only indicates that Sabbaths were paid off during a period of desolation, not that the land was completely uninhabited for the entirety of the period. The 70 years is deliberately misapplied because the context of its original mention at Jeremiah 25:12 – all of the nations of the area serving Babylon – is deliberately ignored.

    Now, the Hebrew word that is translated desolate here is shama, which also means desert or wilderness… a place where no one lives. So, according to the Bible, Jerusalem was a desolate waste for 70 years. Then if Babylon was destroyed in 539-B.C.E., and Cyrus released the Jews in his first year (as the scriptures tell us), the date that Jerusalem was re-inhabited was 537-B.C.E… and counting back 70 years brings us 607-B.C.E.

    538 is the correct year for being re-inhabited, and that was primarily by those who wanted to go up to rebuild the temple, not a wholesale return of all of the Jews. shamem means 'appalled', and doesn't require complete depopulation at all.

    But if (as historians say) Jerusalem started its desolation in 587-B.C.E., the 70-years of the Bible record would bring us to 517-B.C.E. Is it possible that 517-B.C.E. was when the Jews returned? No, for by that time, as both the books of Zechariah (written in 518-B.C.E.) and Haggai (written in 520-B.C.E.) show, the Jews had built houses, planted crops, and were working on the Temple. Why, Jerusalem had definitely been inhabited for quite some time before 517-B.C.E. So, 587 doesn’t fit into the prophecy or the Bible record.

    It is flawed logic to suggest the faulty conclusion that the 70 years must have ended in 517 if using 587 for Jerusalem’s fall. Neither the exile (Ezekiel 40:1) nor the 70 years (Jeremiah 25:12) began with the destruction of Jerusalem.

    Daniel's Exile
    Some also claim that Daniel was in Babylon during the 2nd year of Nebuchadnezzar’s reign. So, they reason that if Nebuchadnezzar started his rule in 625-B.C.E. and Daniel was brought into exile before that, he would have been well over 100-years-old when he died, since he lived under the rule of Cyrus and Darius after Babylon was conquered.
    But notice what Daniel 1:1 says: ‘It was during the third year of the reign of JehoYakim (the king of Judah) that NebuChadnezzar (the king of Babylon) came to Jerusalem and attacked it.’ Note that it was Nebuchadnezzar who did the conquering and took the exiles, and among these exiles was Daniel, for Daniel 1:5, 6 says, ‘Then the king arranged for them to eat at the king’s table each day, to share in his banquet wine, and to have them taken special care of for three years. And after that, they were to be brought before the king.’
    So, Daniel had been in captivity for at least three years by the end of this period, right? But Daniel 2:1, 2 says, ‘It was in the second year of the reign of NebuChadnezzar that he had a dream, which disturbed him so deeply that he couldn’t sleep. So, the king said to call [his] officials, priests, sorcerers, and Chaldeans, to have them interpret the dream.’ This is one of the dreams that Daniel interpreted.
    So, critics argue that this convincing proof Daniel was there in the 2nd year of Nebuchadnezzar’s reign. But if Daniel had already been there at least 3 years, how could he interpret the dream in Nebuchadnezzar’s 2nd year? It would have been at least his 3rd year. So, why did Daniel write that it was in the 2nd year of Nebuchadnezzar’s reign?

    Daniel, taught by Babylonians, didn’t use the accession-year system. He was brought to Babylon in Nebuchadnezzar’s accession year (605 BC), Daniel’s 3rd year in Babylon would therefore be the 2nd regnal year of Nebuchadnezzar (603).

    The obvious reason for this is that Daniel was writing from the perspective of how many years the Jews had been under Nebuchadnezzar’s rule. He was speaking of how many years Nebuchadnezzar had ruled them, not how many years he had been king!
    Notice for example, what Jeremiah 52:28 tells us. ‘These are the people whom Nebuchadrezzar took into exile: in the seventh year, three thousand and twenty-three Jews.’
    So, if the first exiles were taken by Nebuchadnezzar in the 7th year of his rule, then how could Daniel have been there to interpret his dream in the 2nd year of his reign?
    The fact is, Daniel was taken into exile at the same time as Ezekiel, Jehoiachin, and the rest of the first exiles, which was around 617-B.C.E. So, he would have been less than 100-years-old when he served under both Cyrus and Darius. And that would have been very possible for a man full of God's Spirit and having Jehovah's support.

    Daniel was not taken in an exile at all; Daniel and others were taken as part of a booty given by Jehoiakim to prevent a siege against Jerusalem in 605. 2 Kings 24:1 confirms that Nebuchadnezzar indeed came up against Jerusalem an absolute minimum of 3 years prior to the siege in 598. There is no need to rely on superstition or presumption on God to give Daniel an especially long life.

    Jehoiakim's Rule
    Promoters of the 587-B.C.E. theory argue that what the Bible says about the rule of Jehoiakim disproves 607-B.C.E. as the date of Jerusalem’s desolation. Does 607-B.C.E. fit in with the Bible history about Jehoiakim? Yes it does! Note: Jehoiakim began his rule in 628-B.C.E., and he reigned for 11 years, For 2 Chronicles 36:5 tells us, ‘Twenty-five years old was Jehoiakim when he began to reign, and for eleven years he reigned in Jerusalem.’
    Nebuchadnezzar began his rule in 625-B.C.E. (the 4th year of Jehoiakim). For Jeremiah 25:1 tells us, ‘The word that occurred to Jeremiah concerning all the people of Judah in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, the king of Judah, that is, the first year of Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon.’

    Jeremiah 25:1 – counting accession years - mentioning the 4th year of Jehoiakim and Nebuchadnezzar’s 1st year (605) is in complete agreement with Daniel 1:1, not counting accession years and referring to Jehoiakim’s 3rd year and not giving a regnal year for Nebuchadnezzar.

    Jehoiakim was set up as a vassal king by Nebuchadnezzar in 620- B.C.E., for 2 Kings 24:1 tells us, ‘In his days Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon came up, and so Jehoiakim became his servant for three years. However, he turned back and rebelled against him.’

    The Hebrew word malkut does not at all imply vassalage, and is never used in that sense in the bible. Jehoiakim “became a servant” in that he paid tribute, which included initially captives such as Daniel. After 3 years of paying such tribute, Jehoiakim rebelled, after which marauder bands were sent out, which eventually led up to the siege in 598. (2 Kings 24:1-8)

    Nebuchadnezzar conquered Jehoiakim in 617-B.C.E., then Jehoiachin reigned for 3 months thereafter. And during this time, many Jews were taken into captivity.

    The exile of 598 was the largest, and was used by the Jews as the frame of reference for the beginning of their exile. (Ezekiel 40:1, Jeremiah 52:28-30)

    Note what 2 Kings 24:12-17 tells us about this: ‘Then JehoIachin (the king of Judah) surrendered to the king of Babylon, along with his mother, servants, governors, and eunuchs, so the king of Babylon [took him captive] during the eighth year of his reign. Then he went in and took all the treasures in the Temple of [Jehovah], and all the treasures in the king’s palace. And he had all the gold things that Solomon (the king of Israel) had placed in the Temple of [Jehovah] cut off and removed, just as [Jehovah] said would happen. Then he took all the governors and all the important people from Jerusalem and carried them into captivity (some ten-thousand people), including all the contractors and their workers, so all that was left in the land was just poor people. He carried off JehoIachin, his mother, his wives, his eunuchs, and all the great people of the land. He took them all
    from Jerusalem and resettled them in Babylon. He also carried off seven thousand of [Judah’s] greatest men, a thousand contractors and their craftsmen, and a thousand of the best soldiers, and took them to Babylon.’
    2 Chronicles 36:5 tells us: ‘Twenty-five years old was Jehoiakim when he began to reign, and for eleven years he reigned in Jerusalem; and he continued to do what was bad in the eyes of Jehovah his God.’
    Now, Daniel said that it was in Jehoiakim’s 3rd year that he was conquered, but he had to be speaking about the third year from the time that he started as a vassal king to ebuchadnezzar, for how could he be conquered in this 3rd year if he reigned for 11 years? So, Nebuchadnezzar’s 8th year was Jehoiakim's 11th year, just as the scripture shows.

    2 Kings 24:1 indicates that Jehoiakim was given into Nebuchadnezzar’s hand in that he was forced to pay tribute, but it is evident that he reigned for several years after that. (Similarly, Jeremiah 46:2 indicates that Nebuchadnezzar defeated Necho in 605BC, though Necho was not killed at that time.) The ‘vassalage’ theory is a red herring.

    Jeremiah 52:28 confirms this, for it says, ‘These are the people whom Nebuchadrezzar took into exile: in the seventh year, three thousand and twenty-three Jews.’

    Jeremiah 52:28, an interpolation that does not appear in the source material from 2 Kings, only serves to confirm that Jeremiah counted accession years whereas the Babylonians did not, and further demonstrates the agreement between Daniel 1:1 and Jeremiah 25:1. (Significantly, the Insight book points to a Babylonian tablet that confirms Nebuchadnezzar’s 7th year as what Jeremiah elsewhere calls his 8th year.)

    So, he took exiles at the end of the 7th year (or at the beginning of the 8th year as described in 2 Kings 24), and in the 18th year of his reign.

    The references to 7th year (not counting accession year) and 8th year (counting accession year) actually refer to the same year.

    Thereafter (in 617), Zedikiah began his rule, which lasted 11 years until 607-B.C.E. So Jeremiah 52:12, 13 tells us, ‘And in the fifth month, on the tenth day of the month, that is, [in] the nineteenth year of King Nebuchadrezzar, the king of Babylon, Nebuzaradan the chief of the bodyguard, who was standing before the king of Babylon, came into Jerusalem. And he proceeded to burn the house of Jehovah and the house of the king and all the houses of Jerusalem; and every great house he burned with fire.’

    Again, the interpolation at Jeremiah 52:29 calls this the 18th year. 2 Kings 25:1-7 places this event definitely in 587.

    Ezekiel's Exile
    Since Ezekiel gives many prophecies in connection with the destruction of Jerusalem, it is vital that we establish exactly when Ezekiel was taken into exile. At Ezekiel 40:1 we read, ‘In the twenty-fifth year of our exile, in the start of the year, on the tenth [day] of the month, in the fourteenth year after the city had been struck down, on this very same day the hand of Jehovah proved to be upon me.’
    So, here we can definitely establish that Ezekiel was in exile some 11 years before the destruction of Jerusalem. Using secular chronology, this would be 597/598-B.C.E., but according to the Bible it would be 617/618 -B.C.E. Keep these dates in mind, because they are vital for the rest of our discussion.

    This serves to demonstrate that the Jews did not consider their exile to be the focus of the 70-year period foretold by Jeremiah. Jeremiah 29:10, written several years before the destruction of Jerusalem, indicates that the 70 years of nations serving Babylon had already begun. (The NWT uses “at Babylon” in this verse, though that contradicts Jeremiah 25:12, therefore most translations reject such a rendering.)

    Egypt's Forty-Year Desolation
    Ezekiel prophesied that Nebuchadnezzar would plunder and desolate Egypt… and he even showed how long that desolation would last! This prophecy is a key to establishing when the desolation of Jerusalem took place.
    Part of that prophecy was made in the 27th year of Ezekiel’s exile, for we read at Ezekiel 29:17-19, ‘Now it came about in the twenty-seventh year, in the first [month], on the first [day] of the month, that the word of Jehovah occurred to me, saying … Here I am giving to Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon the land of Egypt, and he must carry off its wealth and make a big spoil of it and do a great deal of plundering of it; and it must become wages for his military force.’
    Now, counting 27 years from 597/598 -B.C.E. (the date of Ezekiel's exile according to secular chronology) brings us to 570- B.C.E. But if we count 27 years from 617/618-B.C.E., that brings us to 590-B.C.E. These dates are very important when considering the prophecy that Ezekiel made about how long the land of Egypt would be desolated. For, notice how long Ezekiel then said Egypt was to be desolated (Ezekiel 29:12), ‘And I will make the land of Egypt a desolate waste in the midst of desolated lands; and its own cities will become a desolate waste in the very midst of devastated cities for forty years; and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations and disperse them among the lands.’
    Now let’s compare the dates. Ezekiel gave this prophecy in 570- B.C.E., so the desolation had to take place sometime after that. Vat 4956 (the source that establishes the 37th year of Nebuchadnezzar and which secular historians believe to be 568- B.C.E.) also talks about Nebuchadnezzar’s campaign against Egypt. So according to secular chronology, Nebuchadnezzar desolated Egypt in 568… his 37th year. So, the 40-year desolation would have ended in 528-B.C.E. But Cyrus let all the exiles go in 537-B.C.E.!
    Historical records show that Egypt actually had an alliance with the last Babylon King, Nabonidus, before the destruction of Babylon in 539, so Egypt had been repatriated before 539… and 568 to 539 is less than 30 years. So, how could Egypt have been desolated for 40 years?
    Now let’s compare these dates to what the Bible shows to be true. Ezekiel would have made the prophecy in 590-B.C.E., and the 37th year of Nebuchadnezzar’s reign would be the year 588-B.C.E., which would also be the year that Egypt was desolated. Now let’s add the 40 years of desolation, and we arrive at the year 548-B.C.E., which allows plenty of time before their restoration (sometime before 539-B.C.E.). It amazingly fits into the Bible prophecies and chronology.

    Applying a literal 40 years of desolation to Egypt is both unnecessary, and extremely unlikely. The Society’s interpretation requires that the reign of Amasis was marred by 40 years of desolation. The Society’s interpretation further requires that despite these unfavourable conditions, Amasis’ reign be stretched out to 64 years. It is much more likely that with a lengthy reign of 44 years, Amasis’ reign was relatively peaceful and prosperous.

    The Seventy-Year Prophecy for Tyre
    In Ezekiel 26:1-4 we read of a prophecy that was to be fulfilled upon Tyre. It says, ‘And it came about in the eleventh year, on the first [day] of the month, that the word of Jehovah occurred to me, saying … Here I am against you, O Tyre, and I will bring up against you many nations, just as the sea brings up its waves. And they will certainly bring the walls of Tyre to ruin and tear down her towers, and I will scrape her dust away from her and make her a shining, bare surface of a crag.’
    Now, we can establish that Ezekiel made this prophecy either in 586-B.C.E. (according to secular chronology) or in 606-B.C.E. (according to Bible chronology). Then notice what Isaiah 23:15-17 tells us: ‘And it must occur in that day that Tyre must be forgotten seventy years, the same as the days of one king. At the end of seventy years it will happen to Tyre as in the song of a prostitute: Take a harp, go around the city, O forgotten prostitute. Do your best at playing on the strings; make your songs many, in order that you may be remembered. And it must occur at the end of seventy years that Jehovah will turn his attention to Tyre, and she must return to her hire and commit prostitution with all the kingdoms of the earth upon the surface of the ground.’
    Now lets return to Ezekiel 26:7, 8 and see how what he wrote ties into the prophecy of Isaiah: ‘For this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, Here I am bringing against Tyre Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon from the north, a king of kings, with horses and war chariots and cavalrymen and a congregation, even a multitudinous people.’
    So, we see that Tyre was besieged by Nebuchadnezzar, and for 70 years Tyre was ‘forgotten.’ This doesn’t mean that Tyre was to be desolated for 70 years, but that it was merely forgotten as a major commercial center.

    Ezekiel 26:5, 6 are conveniently – and dishonestly – omitted; those verses refute the claim that the judgement was in a ‘commercial’ sense.

    Now, secular history would try to tell us that the siege of Tyre began shortly after the desolation of Jerusalem, which they say is around 586/7-B.C.E. And if so, the 70 years would therefore end in 517-B.C.E. But Ezra 3:6, 7 tells us ‘When the seventh month arrived the sons of Israel were in [their] cities. And the people began to gather themselves as one man to Jerusalem. And they proceeded to give money to the cutters and to the craftsmen, and eatables and drink and oil to the Sidonians and the Tyrians, to bring cedar timbers from Lebanon to the sea at Joppa, according to the permission granted by Cyrus the king of Persia to them.’
    This event happened in 537/536-B.C.E., only 50 or so years after the siege of Tyre. And Isaiah 23:18 was fulfilled at this time when Tyre was hired by Jehovah, for the scriptures says, ‘And her profit and her hire must become something holy to Jehovah.’ (Because Tyre was supplying cedar timbers for Jerusalem, it was a holy work performed by Tyre).

    The Jews were home in 538, in Cyrus’ first year. 537/6 was Cyrus’ second year.

    So, secular chronology can’t be correct! The siege of Tyre could have only taken place in 606-B.C.E. shortly after the true date of the destruction of Jerusalem in 607-B.C.E. For if we count 70 years from 607/606-B.C.E., we arrive at just in the right year, 537/536-B.C.E. when the timbers were supplied for Jehovah's rebuilding work.

    Tyre paid tribute to Nebuchadnezzar after a lengthy siege, and was left in peace by the Babylonians. It was destroyed centuries later by the Persians. Even the Watchtower Society is not foolish enough to claim that the 70 years applies literally to Tyre. In fact, in their Isaiah publication, they equate it with the 70 years of nations serving Babylon (Jeremiah 25:12), even though that contradicts their other definition of the 70 years.

    True Bible Chronology
    As you can see, the timelines are impossible if 587-B.C.E. is the correct date of Jerusalem's desolation because of:
    The 70-year prophecy about Tyre, which began after the destruction of Jerusalem. If that happened in 586, it would bring us to 516, some 20 years after the exiles returned and Tyre provided cedars for the Jew’s rebuilding work.

    A strawman argument.

    The 40 years of devastation on Egypt. It that began in 568, the 40 years ends in 528, but all the exiles were released in 537.

    Another strawman argument.

    The 70 years that Jerusalem was to be uninhabited and desolate. If 587 is correct, the desolation would have ended in 517, when houses had been built and crops grown for some 20 years.

    A misapplication of Jeremiah 25:12.

    So, here is the true chronology:

    I'll give the correct years and scriptures for their wrong points

    625 – Nebuchadnezzar begins his rule

    605 – Jeremiah 25:1, Daniel 1:1

    617 – Daniel, Ezekiel, and were Jehoiachin exiled

    605 Daniel taken as part of tribute to prevent siege – Daniel 1:1, 2 Kings 24:1
    598 Ezekiel, Jehoiachin – 2 Kings 24:8, Ezekiel 40:1

    614 – Daniel’s training ends

    603 – 3rd year in Babylon – Daniel 1:5

    607 – Jerusalem was destroyed and the 70 years begin

    609 Babylon conquers last capital of Assyria and becomes world power beginning 70 years of nations serving Babylon – Jeremiah 25:12
    598 Exile of Jews enumerated from a point 11 years prior to fall of Jerusalem – Ezekiel 40:1
    587 Jerusalem destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar – 2 Kings 25:1-10

    606 – Ezekiel prophecies against Tyre

    588 Ezekiel 26:1

    606 – The siege of Tyre and the 70 years of being forgotten begins

    Creative misapplication of 70 years – deliberately ignores Ezekiel 26:5,6!!

    605 – Daniel interprets Nebuchadnezzar’s dream

    603 – 2nd regnal year of Nebuchadnezzar – Daniel 2:1

    590 – Ezekiel gets the prophecy of Egypt’s desolation and tells of the siege of Tyre is now completed (it lasted 13 years according to Josephus)

    572 Ezekiel gets prophecy of Egypt – Ezekiel 29:17
    Baseless claim for completion of siege against Tyre.

    588 – Egypt’s 40-year desolation begins
    548 – Egypt’s 40-year desolation ends

    Baseless claim for literal 40-year desolation of Egypt

    539 – Babylon is conquered

    539 The 70 years end – Jeremiah 25:12; Daniel 5:26-31

    537 – the Jews are restored to their homeland and the 70 years end

    539 The 70 years end – Jeremiah 25:12; Daniel 5:26-31
    538 The Jews return – Ezra 1:1, 3:1
    537 Temple work begins – Ezra 3:8

    536 – the 70 years on Tyre end when they provide timber for Jerusalem.

    537 – timber received from Lebanon – Ezra 3:7

    Yes, the date of 607-B.C.E. the fall of Jerusalem fits perfectly with the Bible. It is in fact the only date that does fit perfectly… no other date will work!

    Anyone can make up just any framework and claim that everything fits, but the facts prove otherwise.

  • thirdwitness
    thirdwitness

    Jeffro , everything you say has been covered in the link. And most of what you say is not backed up by anything but your words. You should use the Bible to prove what you say. Making statements don't make it so. Lets give one small example the Bible clearly shows what the starting point is of the 70 years of servitude to Babylon:

    Jer. 25:28: “Jehovah of armies has said: “You [all the nations] will drink without fail. For, look! it is upon the city upon which my name is called that I am starting off in bringing calamity , and should you yourselves in any way go free of punishment? You will not go free of punishment, for there is a sword that I am calling against all the inhabitants of the earth,” is the utterance of Jehovah of armies.”

    Clearly, Jehovah is “starting off” in bringing the calamity upon the city “upon which my name is called”. Jerusalem must be destroyed first. Then, “these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years”.

    When did Judah's exile begin. Again the Bible straightforwardly spells it out for us.

    2 Kings 25: And in the fifth month on the seventh day of the month, that is to say, the nineteenth year of King Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, Nebuzaradan the chief of the bodyguard, the servant of the king of Babylon, came to Jerusalem. And he proceeded to burn the house of Jehovah and the king’s house and all the houses of Jerusalem; and the house of every great man he burned with fire. And the walls of Jerusalem ... [were] pulled down .

    Now, see if you can spot in the subsequent verses when Judah went into exile:

    ...and from the city he took one court official that had a command over the men of war, and five men from those having access to the king that were found in the city; and the secretary of the chief of the army, the one mustering the people of the land, and sixty men of the people of the land that were to be found in the city; and Nebuzaradan the chief of the bodyguard then took them and conducted them to the king of Babylon at Riblah. And the king of Babylon proceeded to strike them down and put them to death at Riblah in the land of Hamath. Thus Judah went into exile from off its soil.

    That's right. The countryside of Judah did not go into exile before the city. It is after Jerusalem was destroyed that “Judah went into exile from off its soil”. They are the Bible's words — not ours.

    These verses no one can deny. They are there and they are clear.

  • thirdwitness
    thirdwitness

    As for Tyre I guess you want me to say the same thing over and over again like you are doing. When you come up with a legitimate explanation about the 40 year desolation of Egypt let us know.

    Any reasonable honest person will not accept the following explanations as legitimate:

    1. The 40 year desolation is not literal.

    2. Tyre prophecy was wrong therefore Egypt prophecy is wrong.

    3. The Bible is wrong on chronology.

    It must be a little disquieting to all proponents of 587 that this is the best that can be mustered up to explain it. I know if I was a 587 proponent I would be embarrassed. I am really a little bit embarrassed for you people myself.

    Until you can explain the 40 year desolation how can you even proceed to other points to be discussed. There are so many other points that prove 607 and disprove 587 that we can even get to because you can't even overcome this first line of evidence presented. Anyway again here is the link for truthseekers who really are honestly interested and not just out to discredit JWs.

    http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/607/default.html

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    You're still avoiding the most critical issue regarding Tyre, thirdwitness. Readers can see how you evade all critical issues.

    According to you, Tyre was never rebuilt -- even though it stands there today on its original site, inhabited by some 120,000 people -- three times its population when Alexander the Great razed it.

    By your ridiculous 'logic', Jerusalem, having been destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, was never rebuilt. Jerusalem, having been again destroyed by the Romans, was never rebuilt. No one lives there today. What one sees must be an illusion.

    You also continue misrepresenting the issue of what the failure of the Tyre prophecy means: It means that no other prophecy by Ezekiel can be taken literally if it conflicts with well-established historical data.

    The 40-year prophecy by Ezekiel conflicts with well-established historical data, such as testimony from ancient historians and, most importantly, contemporary Egyptian records that prove that Egypt was continuously inhabited and fully functioning as a nation during the entire Neo-Babylonian period.

    That you deliberately fail to deal with these issues shows your gross intellectual dishonesty. You can easily fool your fellow JWs but you cannot fool others.

    AlanF

  • rassillon
    rassillon

    thirdwitness, why do you refuse to answer my post? Please read it and answer accordingly. It was very plain and simple. If you do not understand it please let me know.

  • jayhawk1
    jayhawk1

    When was Egypt destroyed and left uninhabitable for 40 years? I can't seem to remember that one. Doesn't seem to add up anyway. Why would a whole nation be left without people for 40 years? Even Hiroshima and Nagasaki was rebuilt after the A-Bomb was dropped on them. The A-Bomb being the most devistating man made war devise... I would think just pilaging and burning one town after another wouldn't be near as hard to recover from as the A-Bomb. It won't take New Orleans that long to recover from Katrina. It probably won't take that long for Pacific coast towns that long to recover from the big tsunami. Why did it take that long for Egypt to recover?

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit