For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled 601 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  fullofdoubtnow

  Acts 4: 13 Now when they beheld the outspokenness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were men unlettered and ordinary

  That's hardly an answer to Jayhawks' question, 3rdw. If you don't know who these "celebrated watchtower scholars" are, just say so, instead of coming out with statements like this one, which tell us nothing:

  We invite the 'celebrated scholars' to examine our uncelebrated work such as the 40 year desolation of Egypt and disprove it with the Bible.

  It is pretty sad if 'celebrated scholars' cannot overcome the scriptural writings of 'unlettered and ordinary' men. That should tell you something that you really probably don't want to admit.

  Then again, you don't seem overly disposed to answer direct questions on any of the threads you have posted on.
• 

  hillary_step

  QUIZ

  Is the following cartoon :

  1) ThirdWitness looking for Watchtower 'truths'?

  2) Scholar looking for some Celebrated Scholars?

  3) An ostrich looking for a Babylonian prism dated 607BCE with the headlines 'Jersusalem falls to our invading forces'?

  4) J. R. Brown doing what he does best?

  
• 

  rassillon

  thirdwitness wrote:
  

  Additionally, there is a vast difference in the prophecy about Tyre's destruction and the prophecy about Egypt's 40 year desolation. The Bible clearly shows that Egypt's crowd would cease by Neb and thus be without inhabitant because of Neb's conquest. The Bible does not show that Neb would be the one to destroy Tyre to the point of it never being rebuilt. It shows he would bring much destruction and gather spoil from Tyre but that is all. But again, I am utterly amazed that some here are forced to argue that the Bible's prophecies are inaccurate just so you can argue that JWs are wrong. It is pretty clear what some of the motives are here and it is not to find the truths of the Bible. Anyway, I'm sure that those honest truth seekers can see the feeble arguments made by proponents of 587. Arguments which ultimately involve the inaccuracy of the Bible. So if you want to tie our hands and not let us use the Bible then just maybe Jesus really is Jehovah also. My goal is to reach those JWs who still believe the Bible is the reliable and accurate word of God but have been temporarily fooled (as I was once) by apostate untruths.

  thirdwitness

  ,

  You fail to answer me directly and specifically address my points.

  I will give you another chance.

  Please specifically

  address the points I am going to make.

  AND

  Please specifically

  state at the top of your post that it is a response to me.

  If you cannot do this, I can only believe that it is because of one of the reasons as follows

  1.) You can't

  2.) You are unable to comprehend the simple logic which I am using.

  3.) You are unwilling to because it would force you to agree that this argument does not support your belief and that you must be wrong.

  (FIRST) - In the following scripture is specifically states that Nebuchadrezzar would be the one to cause the "crowd of Egypt to cease". The scripture is one thought, that which Jehovah spoke by means of his prophet.

  (Ezekiel 30:10-12) 10 "This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, ‘I will also cause the crowd of Egypt to cease by the hand of Neb·u·chad·rez´zar the king of Babylon. 11 He and his people with him, the tyrants of [the] nations, are being brought in to reduce the land to ruin. And they must draw their swords against Egypt and fill the land with the slain. 12 And I will make the Nile canals dry ground and will sell the land into the hand of bad men, and I will cause the land and its fullness to be desolated by the hand of strangers. I myself, Jehovah, have spoken.’

  (SECOND) - In the following scripture we find similarly one thought which was spoken by Jehovah through his prophet. This ONE thought indicates the entire prophecy about Tyre, that Nebuchadrezzar would come against Tyre...(lots of bad stuff for Tyre)...[culminating in] And I will make you a shining, bare surface of a crag.

  (Ezekiel 26:7-14) 7 "For this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, ‘Here I am bringing against Tyre Neb·u·chad·rez´zar the king of Babylon from the north, a king of kings, with horses and war chariots and cavalrymen and a congregation, even a multitudinous people. 8 Your dependent towns in the field he will kill even with the sword, and he must make against you a siege wall and throw up against you a siege rampart and raise up against you a large shield; 9 and the strike of his attack engine he will direct against your walls, and your towers he will pull down, with his swords. 10 Owing to the heaving mass of his horses their dust will cover you. Owing to the sound of cavalryman and wheel and war chariot your walls will rock, when he comes in through your gates, as in the cases of entering into a city opened by breaches. 11 With the hoofs of his horses he will trample down all your streets. Your people he will kill even with the sword, and to the earth your own pillars of strength will go down. 12 And they will certainly spoil your resources and plunder your sales goods, and tear down your walls, and your desirable houses they will pull down. And your stones and your woodwork and your dust they will place in the very midst of the water.’ 13 "‘And I will cause the turmoil of your singing to cease, and the very sound of your harps will be heard no more. 14 And I will make you a shining, bare surface of a crag. A drying yard for dragnets is what you will become. Never will you be rebuilt; for I myself, Jehovah, have spoken,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.

  (THIRD) - These are quotes from the bible. NO WHERE in these quotes nor in the rest of the book of Ezekiel is there anything which indicates that one prophecy is more TIME SPECIFIC than the other.

  (FOURTH) - The WTB&TS agrees that the Tyre prophecy did not have ultimate fulfillment until a couple of hundred years later.

  (FIFTH) - Thus, you have NO SCRIPTURAL basis for stating that one prophecy MUST take place during a specific time and the other prophecy DOES NOT.

  (SIXTH) - If you disagree, please provide SPECIFIC SCRIPTURAL proof.

  If for some reason you do not understand what I have written. Please Specifically state what you don't understand AND why.

  Awaiting your response.

  -r
• 

  Hellrider

  ...and to ADD to Rasillons point:

  The whole underlying basis for the idea about the 2520 (days of) years (although that these days are years, is not even mentioned in the text, and in both the two other instances in which days stand for years in the Bible, it is explicitly stated that they do!!!), culminating in that "momentous date of 1914", is that Babylons reign "never really ends". That`s right, Babylons reign changes from being literal after 70 years, into becoming "symbolic" (although there is nothing in the text that indicates that this is the case), and continuing until 1914, within the Societys view. This begs the question: Why can`t the 40 years of Egypt have been delayed into later on in that period (as in: after the 70 years of Babylon had ended)? It is NOT clear from the text that the 40 years are between the 580s and 54s, as the Soceity claims. But of course, as I pointed out in my previous post (which you of course will refuse to answer), it doesn`t make any difference at all...
• 

  AlanF

  I find it astonishing that a person can read clear words in the Bible and stubbornly refuse to understand them. But this is typical of JW defenders.

  So here are a few questions for you, thirdwitness. So as to ensure that your answers, when silly, can be analyzed, please give reasons for them.

  Tell me, thirdwitness, does Ezekiel 26:14 say or not say that Tyre will never be rebuilt?

  Tell me, thirdwitness, was Tyre destroyed by Alexander the Great, or not?

  Tell me, thirdwitness, was Jerusalem destroyed by the Babylonians and later the Romans, or not?

  Tell me, thirdwitness, does Jerusalem exist today?

  Tell me, thirdwitness, does Tyre exist today?

  Tell me, thirdwitness, was Jerusalem rebuilt?

  Tell me, thirdwitness, was Tyre rebuilt?

  Tell me, thirdwitness, what city resides at geographic coordinates 33:16:12 N by 35:12:10 E?

  Tell me, thirdwitness, are you able to believe the evidence of your eyes when such evidence contradicts what you want to believe?

  AlanF
• 

  toreador

  Was Jerusalem rebuilt near the same location?

  Tor
• 

  scholar

  ozziepost
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  scholar

  ozziepost

  12864

  You are quite mistaken about any such rendevous for you have not answered my question: Have you been disfellowshipped from the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses? If your answer is in the affirmative then such an appointment is impossible but if your answer is negative then such an appointment can be arranged.

  scholar JW
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  scholar

  Alan F

  4531

  Apostates do not do biblical exegesis very well because they lack a love of God's Word and have a lack of Holy Spirit and lack any Organization or community of united believers and worshippers of the only true God, Jehovah. Such a pathetic response to the 'mind blowing' defense by third witness shows the desperation of apostates who try to undermine the truth of the Bible. This is clearly evident in your approach to the matter of Tyre and the fulfillment of Ezekiel's prophecy in 26:14 wherein the prophet stated plainly that Tyre "never...be rebuilt" (NWT). That prophecy plainly refers to that maritime city of Tyre that existed as an island city up until the conquest by Alexander the Great in 332 BCE and is further proved by the remainder verses in that chapter from 15-21.

  In short, although a modern land city of Tyre exists today this fact does not contravene the prophecy of Ezekiel that Tyre which existed back then as an 'island city; remains thus today a devastated place. Prophecy is fulfilled just as God's Word plainly states. Compare Ezekiel 26:4 with verse 14. Nice and easy!

  scholar JW
• 

  AuldSoul

  thirdwitness: Here is a better site that proves 607 beyond a doubt. The one you post ;was the beginnings of the essay before it was completed. NO ONE has ever been able to come up with an explanation, especially for the 40 year desolation of Egypt.

  Here's my comeback...are you ready? Not even the Bible gives a clue when the 40 year desolation of Egypt occurred. Any explanation offered is 100% interpretation of men, because the Bible DOES NOT bother to interpret/declare the prophecy's fulfillment.

  Go ahead, prove me wrong. I dare, ya. (mostly kidding)

  I have a hard time taking site like the one to which you linked very seriously. The school playground nature of such JW "defenses", not against the weight of secular data but against a specific "authority" on the subject, is hilarious. But even the site to which you linked disagrees DIRECTLY with the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society publications on the subject. I wonder if that troubles you at all. I will be happy to discuss the occurrences by PM if you like, or here if you prefer.

  Let's discuss a different year, instead. Let's discuss the proofs for 597 BC versus 617 BC. This removes the possibility that either of us would be working from a religiously motivated agenda in our interpretting the available data. The year is noteworthy, both Scripturally and secularly, as the year of Jehoiachin's exile. The proofs for 597 BC are incredibly strong, there is no ambiguity whatsoever and, apart from Jehovah's Witnesses, NO dissent on the secular dating (that I know of).

  Keep in mind, my eventual objective would be proving that Jehoiachin's exile actually took place in 597 BC, not in 617 BC. I don't care a whit for what that proof may do to your religious doctrine, because history doesn't care about preserving the pet doctrines of end times religions that pop up 2,500 years after their chosen event horizon, into which all history must be warped until they are lost in the black hole of baseless beliefs that is surely at the core of ALL such religions (and there are MANY throughout history).

  AuldSoul (of the "Not Tired" class)