by Gregor 135 Replies latest members politics
For posterity:
Fangorn:
Oh they'll just wait until some leftist government is in place and then they'll be quite happy killing terrorists. All these guys were in love with Uncle Joe when he was killng millions, and Chairman Mao when he was killing millions, and Uncle Ho when he was killing hundreds of thousands, and they'll be ecstatic when Chairman Hillary nukes the terrorists into a parking lot.Yes, Virginia, there really were Neo-cons in the 21st century.
I have two sincere questions that I have wondered since the beginning of the War on Terror. I invite any gung-ho neo-con, whether Republican, Independent, or Democrat (lol), to explain this to me.
If this is a War on Terror, and terror is a subjectively defined concept which can spring up at any time in thousands of circumstances, (1) how can we possibly measure our success and effectiveness in waging the war, and (2) how will we know we have won?
This seems like a monstrous outgrowth from the concept of the War on Drugs, but even better (for the warmongerers) because this one is a literal war that needs wepons and supplies and this one can't ever END!
Respectfully,
AuldSoul
The War on Terror is just a cutesy name, a catch phrase if you will, much like "Project Desert Storm." It's meant to titillate. It sounds exciting. It's WAR by God and ' Merican's love a war. Oops, sorry, you said you wanted a neo-con to answer.
What would you suggest?I think AuldSoul said it pretty well. A few additional thoughts:
It doesn't take a genius to know that if you want to make America safer, you have to make more friends than enemies.
Also, a real warrior has respect for, and will listen to, his enemy. Doesn't mean you'll agree, but if you do, then why kill people (making fresh new enemies) rather than admit you agree on something? I'd guess that 99% of Americans don't even know what Bin Laden wants. Here's a hint, my fellow Americans, he doesn't hate you for your freedoms, your short dresses, or your ipods. He did want American troops out of Saudi Arabia and guess what, he got just that.
Another thing we could do to fight terrorism would be to kill terrorist. Novel idea, that. Why is Bin Laden alive when he was cornered in the mountains of Tora Bora? Because purposely, or thru command negligence, we let him slip away. And he's still out there.
Why didn't we bomb Zarqawi when we knew where he was, holed up in the Ansar al Islam training camp in the Kurdish region of Iraq (were he was out of Saddam's grasp, btw)? Because we have a president who ALWAYS puts politics over policy; if we simply killed Zarqawi, then Bush couldn't have use the flimsy reasoning that there were terrorist being harbored in Iraq in order to try and legitimize the war he so desperately wanted.
By Iris Dement (find it and give it a listen)
Wasteland Of The Free
Living in the wasteland of the free...
We got preachers dealing in politics and diamond mines
and their speech is growing increasingly unkind
They say they are Christ's disciples
but they don't look like Jesus to me
and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the free
We got politicians running races on corporate cash
Now don't tell me they don't turn around and kiss them peoples' ass
You may call me old-fashioned
but that don't fit my picture of a true democracy
and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the free
We got CEO's making two hundred times the workers' pay
but they'll fight like hell against raising the minimum wage
and If you don't like it, mister, they'll ship your job
to some third-world country 'cross the sea
and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the free
Living in the wasteland of the free
where the poor have now become the enemy
Let's blame our troubles on the weak ones
Sounds like some kind of Hitler remedy
Living in the wasteland of the free
We got little kids with guns fighting inner city wars
So what do we do, we put these little kids behind prison doors
and we call ourselves the advanced civilization
that sounds like crap to me
and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the free
We got high-school kids running 'round in Calvin Klein and Guess
who cannot pass a sixth-grade reading test
but if you ask them, they can tell you
the name of every crotch on mTV
and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the free
We kill for oil, then we throw a party when we win
Some guy refuses to fight, and we call that the sin
but he's standing up for what he believes in
and that seems pretty damned American to me
and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the freeLiving in the wasteland of the free
where the poor have now become the enemy
Let's blame our troubles on the weak ones
Sounds like some kind of Hitler remedy
Living in the wasteland of the free
While we sit gloating in our greatness
justice is sinking to the bottom of the sea
Living in the wasteland of the freeLiving in the wasteland of the free
Living in the wasteland of the free
So many of these posts remind me of the battered/abused wife syndrome with which I had personal experience when I was an elder.
1. It must be my fault. (vague guilt)
2. I must try to win him over by being a better wife. (appeasement)
Auld Soul, this is not even a "chicken or the egg" question as to what pissed off this element of radical fundy Islam. Their own fellow Muslims have made billions on billions with their oil and become the most decadent, filthy rich, group of people on earth. Meanwhile, their women still have to keep their faces covered and are murdered for infractions of their male dominant culture. Education? Don't even think about it.
If anything provided a focus for their frustration it was the establishment of the nation of Israel in the late forties. The Palestinians were displaced but their Islamic brethren refused to take them in or give them anything but lip service. They simply said "Gosh, those goddamn Jews and the UN really fucked you over." They are all, still, so tribal and factioned they can't even work together to fight an enemy they outnumber 8 to 1. Read "Six Days of War" by Michael B. Oren. Out of all this strife and angst has arisen what we call radical Islam. They have chosen to focus on the US as the great Satan. Well, duh. That is what we get for being the most successful nation on earth and, let's face it, we are pretty damn decadent ourselves. Meanwhile, their 'brothers', Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Egypt are having their cake (that is, not being a major focus of RadFundIslam anger) and eating it too (having prosperous relationships with the West).
If you really believe that appeasing these people is the answer then I don't know what to say to you. You might as well try standing on the tracks and smiling at a freight train.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. But, I do resent the constant drumbeat that those of us that feel as I do are just "baaad people". At this point in time our first job is to protect ourselves as aggressively as we can. It's getting real serious out there.
FlyingHighNow, perfect alias, by the way.
Revel in how smart and good you are. It feels good when you look in the mirror.
A lover of all the good little people and a hater of the bad big people.
Quote socialist drivel poems that say nothing and forgive the victim/criminals
Spit venom at your country and sleep safe in your bed
Latch onto every bit of tripe you hear, as long as it fits your made up mind
There are so many that agree out there, you really are one hundred pecent right
Face each day with the clear conscience of the rightous ones
Maybe God is taking notes
I'm frankly at a loss, Greg. You sound like you are recommending genocide of Muslims, in case some of them are terrorists. As though the war on terror would be over if that happened. As though terrorists are Muslims.
I'll tell you what, friend, you and your wife come take a ride with me into the places me and my wife won't go together, and where she won't go alone. I know for sure I can talk the talk well enough to introduce you to terror without getting a scratch on me. Let's see if you can learn the truth about where terrorists live. KKK, quite a few other white supremacy groups, or even the Nation of Islam (who aren't really Muslims) would happily beat or kill you and your wife just because the two of you are race traitors. That is current reality, here in the United States.
I live in Albany, GA. Southwest Georgia. My wife and I live with the concept of terror here. And it isn't from Muslims.
This is the truth: Terror is a tool. It will always be a tool. It is a concept, an emotional reaction evoked by those who wish to acheive an objective for which they believe inspiring terror is justified as a means of obtaining.
Schoolyard bullies are terrorists in every meaningful use of the word. These grow up to be adult bullies. Bullies use terror as their primary means of achieving objectives.
You can't eradicate terroristm by eradicating terrorists. It isn't possible, no matter how much money or munitions you throw at it. Since that is the reality, you have to come up with a different method. Unless you believe you can ANSWER the two questions I asked, that is.
If this is a War on Terror, and terror is a subjectively defined concept which can spring up at any time in thousands of circumstances, (1) how can we possibly measure our success and effectiveness in waging the war, and (2) how will we know we have won?
If you are fighting a war that is unwinnable, when do you try a different tactic?
Respectfully,
AuldSoul
Gregor, that's a song, not a poem. I don't hate anyone. I hate what a few greedy people are doing to our country and that they are spreading their greed and evil to the rest of the world. This song was written a few years ago, before GW hit the Whitehouse. It's not a partisan song. It's a song that shows where the trend of America is progressing. Not all of America follows the trends, thank God. And I'm sure there are more than a few Americans that don't feel safe in their beds at night. Do you think Iraq's citizens feel safer after Bush *cough* "rescued" them?
I'm very proud to share these lyrics with the forum and those who read here. I first heard this song when I checked out the CD from the library, a few years back. I'm an Iris Dement fan. Check the lyrics again, neither Bush nor republicans are mentioned once. I don't have to agree with the bad things that go on here to love where I was born. I don't have to agree with Bush to love my country. I don't have to turn a blind eye to the bad, even evil policy to love the land where I was born. Read those lyrics again. I'd suppose you could find people in either party who fit the bill.
For Posterity:
FlyingHighNow, perfect alias, by the way.
Revel in how smart and good you are. It feels good when you look in the mirror.
A lover of all the good little people and a hater of the bad big people.
Quote socialist drivel poems that say nothing and forgive the victim/criminals
Spit venom at your country and sleep safe in your bed
Latch onto every bit of tripe you hear, as long as it fits your made up mind
There are so many that agree out there, you really are one hundred pecent right
Face each day with the clear conscience of the rightous ones
Maybe God is taking notes
Really, Gregor, FHN is as good an American as you are. There is no need in being an ass to her just because she disagrees with you. Besides the last four lines apply to you also. I think you owe her an apology. BTW, I withdraw my application to be your groupie.
