Their excommunication practice is completely out of balance they expel people even for celebrating Christmas or birthdays as much as they do for adultery.
Above all they expel people for disagreeing with their doctrines even if they can't prove them wrong through the Bible and in this sense they are using it as a political weapon against dissenters.
As for the cross don't swallow whole what the JWs are giving you, Christians don't worship the cross but to them it is rather a symbol of salvation.
Excommunication is good!!!!
by I-follow-the-narrow-path 81 Replies latest jw friends
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greendawn
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Dr Jekyll
Elizabeth.
Is it good to punish people who leave, to the degree that you make them so unhappy and miserable that they take there own lives? There are people on this site who have lost close ones because those ones could not cope with being completely cut off from their friends and families.
Disfellowshipping KILLS.
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sass_my_frass
She told me; however, that those who leave the church should be punished.
Ah, see I always thought that it was God who is supposed to do the punishing, but having been through a judicial committee I have worked out that they think our judges are actually supposed to be a kangaroo court of three guys with day jobs who act as judge, jury and executioner over the congregation.
And it is good not to talk to them, because then they understand what their actions do.
The most perfectly circular argument in the shunning handbook; 'shunning them is loving, and it shows them the consequences of their actions'. Shunning is however among the cruelest and most loveless things a human can do. I have never been more deeply hurt or traumatised than during that judicial committee and in the year since. My family have shown that their loyalty towards me stretches as far as their fear of the same thing happening to them. The shunning has driven me as far away from them and their insane cult as I can get. They couldn't have done anything worse to me; they couldn't have thought of something that would put me off returning, more than the shunning. There is no excusing the heartless brutal cruelty of disfellowshipping.
Your teacher is deeply deluded, and her thoughts are not her own. She is not teaching you anything, she's just parroting years of indoctrination. Stop letting her into your head or it will happen to you too.
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Dr Jekyll
Her husband broke in and started talking about (serious sins) like adultry
Elizabeth,
People don't just get disfellowshipped for serious sins. Your teacher is deliberately misleading you by not telling you the whole truth.
Up until a few weeks ago there was a young bloke on here called Dan. Dan wanted to see what would happen to him if he asked the elders questions. He asked them why the elders cover up the fact that there might be paedophiles in the congregation and why they don't warn parents that the brother who's taking such an interest in their little girl isn't a sexual pervert. He asked them about evolution and the date that the city of Jerusalem was destroyed. Those weren't bad questions were they.
Do you know what they did to him? Do you know what they did to him just because he asked questions? They disfellowshipped him.
His family, all the friends he grew up with, his friends down the hall even his flat mate, none of them are allowed to talk to him any more, they're not even allowed to nod an hello at him. Dans now been cut off from everyone he knew that is a jw just because he asked a question. Is that really just and fair. Is that really loving?
Do you really want to get to know a load of people, to get to be really friendly then one day because you do something the elders don't like find yourself cut off, ignored and shunned by everyone
Think about it for a second how would you feel if they did it to you?
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cyberdyne systems 101
The thing is we should all make up our own minds with our OWN christian conscience whether or not we want fellowship with someone or not. We are usually being asked by the elders through an announcement that someone is to be shunned, and yet we have not established for ourselves the validity of that action with the person themselves, is that right? Is that Christian?
If someone was promoting something we condemned chances are we would avoid them, but if they simply choose to believe something else or live another lifestyle without being part of the congregation, it makes no sense to shun them (ie punish them). It really stems from the delluded claim that the Witnesses are God's only true religion, which after research you will realise they are far from being.
CS 101
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rwagoner
I know it has worked very well for me. I left the jw's. I wasn't disfellowshipped, just didn't agree and left. So now I don't need to worry about those pesky family functions or seeing my parents because they can't speak to me. I also don't need to run back and forth taking my children to spend time with their grandparents. My parents are both getting older and have many medical problems but I don't need to spend a lot of time worrying about them because they have already decided to follow the jw rules and simply allow themselves to die rather than accept life saving treatment. And if something should happen to them I won't need to miss work to attend the funeral because I am not welcome there.Can you see where I am coming from here ? Shunning in any form is a hateful, unloving, unchristian practice. It tears families and friendships apart and is certainly not brotherly love in any way. If it is intended to "punish" me...then for what ? I have been accused of no wrongdoing. If they intend to shame me and make me beg to be allowed to return...I have no reason to be ashamed...and why would I want to return to an organization that I don't believe in and that treats people in such a cold, heartless manner.
Excommunication is NOT Good !!!!!! ***Also you called the jw conducting your study "your teacher". This is a very long stretch at best. jw's are encouraged NOT to continue their education past high school so their qualifications as a teacher are really very "iffy". They really don't "teach" it is much more like repeating a well rehearsed script.
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Abaddon
The purpose of excommunication, disfellowshipping or 'shunning' is simple and has very little to do with anything other than preventing those with different opinions communicating those opinions to others.
Imagine you are buying a car.
You know some people have bought this kind of car before and were not happy with it and got rid of it.
You ask the sales person (who naturally assures you this is the ONLY car for you) about the people who bought it and weren't happy with it and got rid of it.
The person selling you the car says "Never talk to anyone who bought this car and then sold it. They are all liars and cannot be trusted".
Would you buy a car from someone who said that? From someone who told you anyone who had experience of the car and said anything negative about it were liars?
If a religion IS 'the truth', then it should be able to withstand criticism. A religion that sets things up so it is impossible to question it or criticise it is protecting itself from examination and criticism BECAUSE IT CANNOT STAND UP TO SUCH EXAMINIATION.
Truth need not hide; any religion that shuns people who ask questions is hiding.
Try asking your teacher about;
- Whether any apology or compensation was issued to the friends and family of people who died because they refused organ transplants prior to the 80's when they were forbidden to JW's?
- Why the doctrine on blood transfusions allows you to have EVERY PART of whole blood injected into you in its component forms (platlets, heamoglobin, etc.), but not to have a transfusion of the saqme blood in its original form. This is like saying 'Do not buy a stolen car - you can buy it piecec by piece and put it together and that's fine, but don;t buy the whole car'.
- Why the JW's heavily criticse other religions for the revison of doctrine WHEN THEY DO THE SAME THING THEMSELVES. For example, the definiton of 'generation' has changed from something which meant Armagedon would be here before 2000 to one where there is no time limit on when it might arrive.
- Why Mexican JW's were allowed by the Organsiation to bribe government officials and recieve a card exempting them from military service, whilst Malawian JW's were prohibited by the Organsiation from buying ID cards issued by the government. Having these cards was compulsory and those without them were uinable to easily buy food, and were often beated, raped, or killed for not having the card.
I think the reaction of your teacher to you asking these questions and the answers they give you will be very interesting indeed...
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fullofdoubtnow
Elizabeth, do you think it's a sin to smoke a cigarette? The jws do, due to their (mis)interpretation of a scripture in 2Corinthians, and if a jw smokes, and doesn't quit, he will be disfellowshipped, and not even considered for reinstatement until hae has quit.
Do you think it's a sin to ask questions? If you ger baptised and question ANY watchtower doctrine, you will be disciplined, and not very lovingly. If you continue to question, you will be disfellowshipped.
Do you think it's a sin to abuse a child? Obviously, it's more than a sin, it's a criminal act. Yet, when a jw is accused of such a crime, if there are not at least 2 witnesses to the act, and let's face it, there rarely are, the jw elders take no action. They do not report the incident to the authorities, as in many places they are required to do. They merely call their HQ, who will often advise them to "leave it to Jehovah". If the wife of the abuser goes to the elders, they are often told to pray more and be a better wife. If the victim goes to the authorities, they are usually disfellowshipped for going outside the organisation for help, even though they have recieved very little or no help from the organisation. If their mother supports them, she is also disfellowshipped, whilst the abuser remains a witness in good standing.
That is the kind of organisation that you are considering joining. If you asked them about some of these things, I doubt very much that they would be truthful with you. JWs have an unwritten policy called theocratic warfare, which means that they only need to tell the truth to those who deserve to hear it. Included on the list of those who are undeserving are police, social services and judges. They will happily lie in court if it furthers the organisation's interests. If you are seriously considering joining the jws, then I wish you well, but be very sure that it is what you want to do and not what they want you to do. They will soon be pressuring you to make more of a commitment, if they haven't already done so. In the meantime, continue researching and posting on here.
love
Linda
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Dr Jekyll
Elizabeth, tell me if you think this is "good" if you think peter deserved to be disfellowshipped...
I'm going to tell you about my friend Peter. He and everyone else in this is / was a jw.
Peter (23) Married a sister of 18, the sister had two younger sisters one was 14 the other 12 and up until she married Peter she lived at home with her parents in a "happy JW family".
Shortly after marrying Peter peters wife's youngest sister, the 12 year old went to a teacher and told the teacher that her father had touched and made her do sexual things to him. He wanted full sex with her but she said no. Apparently he had tried this several times. The police and social services were called in and the whole filthy story came out.
The father had regularly been having full sex with Peters wife, his own daughter from when she was 14. Obviously when she married Peter and moved out he had to stop so he tried it on with the middle daughter. He had sex with her but the next time he tried she fought back and stopped him and threatened to tell on him. So he started messing about with the youngest, just 12 years old.
He was arrested and sent to prison and he did nearly two years in prison and then he came out. Part of his conditions for his early release from prison was that he stay away from his children and their home incase he raped them again and he did this for a few weeks.
Then one Sunday morning, when pete his wife and mother and sister in laws were all down the hall who should walk into the kingdom hall but The Father. The girls including pete's wife had all missed him even though he had rapped them at some point in their lives and they all went running over to him to hug and kiss him. Pete seeing his wife kissing and hugging the man who had raped her for years from the age of 14 as well as the other girls got really angry and lost his temper and he hit the father. He punched him really hard for what he had done to his wife and his wife's sisters.
Now according to JW's you can't go around hitting your "brother" So the Elders called a judicial meeting about Peter and they asked him if he was sorry that he'd hit the man that rapped his wife from the age of 14. Pete said no he wasn't sorry for hitting him so the elders disfellowshipped him.
Pete got cut off from everyone for hitting a rapist. Is that "Good", is that just, is that fair?
As for the father, the rapist, he got off with a public reproval. That means the elders make an announcement from the platform that the brother has been told off and has said he was sorry and everyone can treat him like normal.
It's a long post but hopefully it will give you some insite into what goes on down the hall once the love bombing has stopped.
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KW13
Elizabeth, one other thing.
When you do something wrong, God is the one that deals with it, not men. We are not answerable to men.
By disfellowshipping folks, it cuts them off from all they know, its not to make them see what they did wrong but rather to get them all to come back. If people still talked to you, you'd not be too worried.
It is a wrong practice.