Still pointing your Finger when having a Rafter in your eye? (page 8)

DocHouse

1] Early Christians were WITNESSES of Jesus.

On his last evening with his disciples Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit who would;

"Bear witness about me, and you in turn are to bear witness, because you have been with me from when I began."(Jhn.15:26,27)

Immediately prior to his ascension Jesus told them ;

"You will be witnesses of me..to the most distant part of the earth." (Acts 1:8)

Doc- Jesus came to make his God and Father known (John 17), and the name "Jesus" means "Salvation of Jehovah". So you can't have one- no, you can't have one- no, you can't have one without the ooooooooo-thhhher!

DocHouse

Back tomorrow to see if you acknowledge or reject those FACTS.

Island Man

Not even the bible agrees with DocHouse's assertion that organizations tend to be more corrupt than individuals. The bible indicates the very opposite for it says that in the multitude of counselors (the plurality of minds as exists in an organization) there is wisdom and the one isolating himself (an individual acting on his own individual wisdom) will break forth against all practical wisdom. The bible also says that two heads are better than one. There is absolutely no wisdom to the idea that an organization is prone to making more mistakes than an individual. With the plurality of actors in an organization the shortcomings of one individual tends to be counterbalanced by the strengths of others. The plurality of heads means that issues are tackled by multiple brains as opposed to just one with the result that the correct solution is more likely to be arrived at and errors or bad decisions averted.

Island Man

"Doc- Jesus came to make his God and Father known (John 17), and the name "Jesus" means "Salvation of Jehovah". So you can't have one- no, you can't have one- no, you can't have one without the ooooooooo-thhhher!"

It's all well and good to say that but what is written in the NT makes it undeniably clear that early Christians focused heavily on witnessing about Jesus and, quite unlike JWs, show a complete lack of obsessive fixation on the use of the name YHWH or Jehovah. If a modern JW had written the NT you could be sure it would be totally void of most of the references to Jesus and would focus almost exclusively on Jehovah. A JW bible writer would never have written what 2 Peter 3:18 says! JWs consider it inappropriate to say such things of Jesus! This is a fact that you know and should be ashamed of!

JWs culture is a strange, deviant culture that is alien to first century Christian culture. First century Christians were not afraid to openly honor Jesus with their lips. JWs seem to shy away from honoring Jesus with their lips. They consider it to be idolatry. They scorn the idea of honoring Jesus. JWs are like the voice of strangers that Jesus warned about in John 10.

JWs scorn the scripturally given role of bearing witness to Jesus, which the NT sets forth for Christians, in preference for beggarly returning to OT culture. It's very telling that they completely ignore or play down the plethora of references in the NT to being witnesses of Jesus, to harp on one verse in Isaiah 43 that was a statement made to Jews under the old covenant. What did Jesus say about putting new wine into old wine skins?

Finkelstein

JWs are witnesses and subservient slaves to the Watchtower Corporation, they are not true witnesses to the Gospel of Jesus, if they were they would never have set about calculating dates upon God's sacred time, something clearly admonished by Jesus himself.

Does anyone with a strong mind and clear sense of integrity think god would choose these apostate charlatans ?

Magnum

DocHouse [on pg2 addressing me]: Are you an atheist? Trying to prove ANYTHING to one who doesn't WANT to know is futile.

I don't attach any label to myself right now. Cease with the ad hominem arguments and address the issues. You indicate that I don't want to know. I desperately want to know. That's why I come to this site. I get more honesty and realism here in one week than I got my entire three decades in JWdom. I constantly, open-mindedly seek answers and truth (if there is such). It's JWs who are closed-minded and don't want to know the truth.

Why make false claims about the Bible? Sounds like you don't BELIEVE it. Ask ONE question at a time, and I will answer.

You have the audacity to indicate that I make false claims about the Bible??? Another assertion with no substance. What false claim about the Bible did I make? JWs have an over 100-year history of making major false claims about the Bible - like "miilions now living will never die" (in the early 1900s).

You tell me to ask one question at the time. Why? For clarity or simplicity? Your OP was so lacking in structure and clarity and simplicity that you have no right to set any rules about posting.

Magnum

DocHouse: Jesus came to make his God and Father known (John 17), and the name "Jesus" means "Salvation of Jehovah". So you can't have one- no, you can't have one- no, you can't have one without the ooooooooo-thhhher!

Why then, didn't Jesus say that the Holy Spirit who would "Bear witness about the Father (or God or Jehovah)"?

He could have said that, but he didn't; he said the holy spirit would bear witness about him - not the father.

Jesus came to make his God and Father known (John 17)

Yes, Jesus did, but that doesn't nullify the fact that Jesus stressed that Christians were to be witnesses of him. Jesus was under the Mosaic Law; he was under a system of worship that was to be shortly done away with and replaced by Christianity. The weight of the evidence shows that under Christianity, the new religion, Jesus' followers were to be witnesses of him.

So you can't have one- no, you can't have one- no, you can't have one without the ooooooooo-thhhher!

You sound like a Trinitarian - as if you're stating that Jah and Jesus are the same. You most certainly can have one without the other.

AndDontCallMeShirley

@ DorkHouse: With OUR organization- 8 men call the shots. And look at some of the nonsense they spout- and how they set rules that help most, harm a few, and sometimes go AGAINST scripture. Yet, they have the SAME OBJECTIVE we ALL have- to honor God & Christ.

You do know one of your popes recently died and now the number is 7, right?

So, harming a few and going against scripture 'honors' God and Christ? And you wonder why many here no longer believe and/or are atheist.

8 men call the shots

Interesting comment. Traditionally, WT has always claimed Jehovah calls the shots, since it's his organization.

Are you admitting WT is nothing more than an organization run by fallible humans?

DocHouse

Well, Islandman- give some examples of wonderful religious organizations, please. AND Jesus NEVER stopped teaching people about his God and Father. Churchianity only pretends to follow Jesus.

Magnum- WHAT do you "desperately want to know"? And how CAN one be Christian without teaching others about Christ. You KNOW we do- why the ploy?

Shirely- no, I didn't.And, of COURSE it is "an organization run by fallible humans". I have seen evidence that Christ HELPS us.

Finkelstein

I have seen evidence that Christ HELPS us.

Christ wouldn't have a thing to do with this pretentious commercial fraud, never in a million years.

He told his followers to watch out for false prophets and avoid them.

JWs are just consorting with the sins of men who wanted power unto themselves..

Remember what Jesus said about men who say they come from god and they give out information that is untrue.

Still pointing your Finger when having a Rafter in your eye?

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