by Lady Lee 144 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
If they were really sincere they should ask the question: what have they done for victims and do they really care about their spirituality long term?. PRE-FU---NGCISELY That is EXACTLY what the WTBTS should do - but they do not. It is NOT apostate propaganda - I was an elder and dealt with child abuse so I know how it works - so was Bill Bowen
Scholar you are disgusting and make me sick -or I beg you, open your eyes
scholar
Lady Lee
I am quite sure that regardless of what I say you will not be satisfied for you youself are not only a victim of some monstrous crime but you are also a victim of apostate propaganda.
Excuse me but... I was a faithful witness for 22 years. Even after I left it was 10 years before I read anything that smacked of apostacy. My beliefs about this has absolutely nothing to do with the reading of apostate information. My beliefs are based first and foremost on my personal experience. If anything I was doubley abused by an organization that told my mother to send the child away and keep the abuser in the home. And she did just that. Not once. But twice. First with my aunt, a baptized JW, who killed herself shortly after being sent away. They didn't stop him then. They didn't stop him when she caught him with me in their bed and he denied it so again the elders said - send the child away. And he moved on to my sister, who was 5 years old!!! None of this has to do with reading anything apostate. Nothing. I am a victim of WTS policy though. I hear that one loud and clear.
Even Raymond Franz who bears some reponsibility for the increase in apostasy in recent times has kept a distance from this controversy for he does not support much of the hysteria that underlies that propaganda.
Not true. I was reading his comments just the other day. And they are on this very board.
The whole child abuse issue has been corrupted and distorted by vengeful and dispirited people who have no love of goodness, truth or the sacred.
Your opinion. Which of course it WT opinion. Maybe we are just honest people who demand the truth from an organization that calls itself "The Truth™" Perhaps if you had been that raped and unprotected child you would think differently. But youy know what? There are people here who were not abused and they "get it". It seems the only ones who don't "get it" are the JWs who blindly follow whatever the WTS says.
If they were really sincere they should ask the question: what have they done for victims and do they really care about their spirituality long term?.
On this board, with these people I have never met, I have gotten more comfort and compassion that I got from any JW. Not from the elders, not from some friends who knew and not even from my own mother.
It seems to me that such anti-Witness movements do nothing but exploit victims for their own personal reasons in order to create embarrassment and controversy for God's people
How are people here who offer compassion and caring to strangers that will probably never be more than words on a screen exploiting me? If anything I was exploited by an organization that calls itself man's only avenue to salvation.
If such people truly care about this issue and refrain form a making a lot of noise then perhaps they could engage in a more profitable work of spiritual healing and education.
But they have. They let me know I am not alone. They let me know I did not deserve the abuse. They let me know it wasn't my fault. They let me know I didn't get what I really needed. All of that was more healing than what the elders suggested.
They could use their resources to minimize those things that cause these evils in society such as pornography and violence as perpetrated in the media.
No the only way to stop abuse is to dig it out of the closet, out from under the bed, out from behind the closed doors and shed enough light on the problem that others victims know they aren't alone and can get the help they need.
Our organization has risen to this challenge in the manner in which we see best and that may not be what you wish but that is the way things are done only in a theocratic manner.
From my perspective the only thing the WTS has risen to is the effort to sweep as much of this under th carpet and tell people they have policy to deal with abuse. The polocy does nothing to help the children and nothing to help the adult survivors. Theocratic manner? "Do not be irritating your children." This is way worse than irritating.
If you really want to reform or change things then try to change the world and its corrupted institutions with its emphasis on immorality and ungodliness.
I have been doing this for the last 20 years. What have YOU done? Besides preach.
Our mission is simply to focus people's minds on the only permanent solution for man's evils namely God's Kingdom ruling from 1914.And there lies the problem. The WTS is so focused on the future kingdom they forget the needs of those who need the help the most right now. They have forgotten about love and compassion and genuinely caring for the flock. And that is the tragedy that lets the abuse to continue in the WTS
SCHOLAR: The whole child abuse issue has been corrupted and distorted by vengeful and dispirited people who have no love of goodness, truth or the sacred. If they were really sincere they should ask the question: what have they done for victims and do they really care about their spirituality long term?.
Distorted and corrupted by who, I ask you? By the elder you seemed to be disparagingly referring to earlier? who is helping do this:
Protecting Children Through Education
LAMBS TO PROTECT KIDS NATIONWIDE CAMPAIGN
Locate Sex Offenders in Your Area
Locate Publicly Accused Catholic Priests
Locate Towns Where Alleged Sex Offenders Were Reported to silentlambs
Assisting Survivors with Healing
____________________________
As a result of speaking out on abuse many have been punished for trying to warn others in the congregation as well as endeavoring to find closure by talking about what happened to them or their family. Victims and advocates have been silenced by sanctions within the congregation that range from being marked as bad association to outright disfellowshipping for trying to protect children.
At silentlambs we realize that it takes great courage to speak out on abuse. Instead of punishing those that do we are creating a "hall of fame" for those that are so brave. We call it the silentlambs "courage" award. We honor those as champions for children and put them forth as an example of the right way abuse should be addressed.
What has the WTBTS done for the victims in their midst? What are they doing to protect potential future victims? Preaching the kingdom solution? That's only part of Christianity. Where's the love NOW???--the real, practical, useful, everyday, protecting, nurturing love? Where's the conscience? When it was said that love covers a multitude of sins that didn't mean to love yourself and cover over your own wrong-doings (personal or organizational)!
~Merry (trying not to retch as you defend the indefensible)
If they were really sincere they should ask the question: what have they done for victims and do they really care about their spirituality long term?
Okay I'll answer if you will. What have you done for abuse victims?
Still and all, I notice that you did not reply to any point I brought up to you, so I do not expect a reply now. So be it. Although, in closing, I cannot help but feel sorry for you. What it must be like to be so caught up in rules and regimen that one loses sight of the message must make for a cold and empty place. No light, no warmth with only the empty sales slogans of a religious book selling corporation for company.
Scholar
You are brainwashed and sick. God help you.
Lady Lee
No, you are not a victim of WT policy but you are a victim of a predator, a vile and despicable animal. The WT Society did not authorize or sanction that criminal act so you should not misrepresent the facts. Apostates would have you believe that the Society is so evil that it sends out people as criminals to engage in criminal behaviour but this is preposterous.
Where are Franz's comments on the WT policy or comments on this problem for as far as I know Franz does not post on this board or indeed on any other forum?
From whom should you demand the truth? The WT Society has been as open and transparent about this matter as is possible and appropriate because it may not be to your liking does not mean that the matter is as you describe. As I have said earlier nothing I will say will turn aside the satanic influence that apostates have over you but that is your problem and you have to work matters out for yourself and I hope that through prayer, study and associating with the God's people will help you to become spiritually restored.
I will not be engaging with any other posters except yourself on this subject in this forum because I find such a subject too painfull and abhorrent. If people have an issue with the Society over such matters then they should pursue the matter directly with them because they have all of the facts at hand and are able to handle such inquiries with compassion and love as their usual practice.
scholar JW
able to handle such inquiries with compassion and love as their usual practice
Are you sure we're talking about the same religion? On the planet Earth? Because I have NEVER, in all of my 46 years as a Witness, received a compassionate, loving response from Brooklyn Bethel. (And it always took them at least 3 months to even answer my letters.) One time they didn't even get my congregation right, even though I had mentioned it in the body of my letter. Kinda makes one think they didn't READ it.
I will not be engaging with any other posters except yourself on this subject in this forum because I find such a subject too painfull and abhorrent.
Oh, really? Then why bring it up?
Here's one for your consideration: the congregation that was responsible for driving my father to suicide had a convicted pedophile in its midst. This 14-year-old boy sexually assaulted a 4-year-old girl from the same congregation, got caught (he'd done this before with another child but got caught this time) and sent to juvenile detention for a year. When he got out, his parents wanted to attend the same congregation as the victim. The victim's parents said no, they didn't want their daughter to have to see her abuser on a regular basis. The elders said yes, he can come to this congregation and gave a local needs talk on forgiveness. Needless to say, the victim and her family were never again seen at the Kingdom Hall. All of those who spoke out in defense of the victim were threatened with disfellowshipping if they talked about it, but one well-meaning gossip was kind enough to warn me not to let my children go to the bathroom by themselves. Last I heard, the pedophile was warmly welcomed, went to ALL the parties with other young people, and was treated like nothing ever happened.
Ah, yes, the "spiritual paradise." Please don't reply to this. I don't care what your opinion is. However, you are being provided with a wealth of knowledge on the subject you claim is too painful and abhorrent to talk about (and yet you are still here). With knowledge comes responsibility.
Nina
No, you are not a victim of WT policy but you are a victim of a predator, a vile and despicable animal. The WT Society did not authorize or sanction that criminal act so you should not misrepresent the facts.
OK Let's say you know a man has killed someone. Somebody saw him do it. According to your reasoning you should do nothing. God will take care of it time. Then he is caught killing a second person. And again you sit back and do nothing. You have the information that given to the police could help arrest this person and stop his killing spree.. And then you find out he has killed a third person.
At what point are you responsible for your silence and this person continued his killing spree. In my mind your silence makes you an accessory to murder.
The one and only thing an abuser needs is your silence. That's it! Turn your head and do nothing. As long as you are silent, the abuses go on. And the WTS will tell you again and again they have a policy. Yup leave it in Jehovah's hands. In my family alone the same man sexually abused 3 children over a period of years.In 2 of the 3 cases their deaths can be directly linked to the abuses they experienced as children. The elders KNEW and could have stopped him. But they didn't. Their silence condemns them. Their silence sanctions the abuses to continue. That is what the WTS tells it's followers to do. It's up to God to deal with. We don't get involved.
Apostates would have you believe that the Society is so evil that it sends out people as criminals to engage in criminal behaviour but this is preposterous.
In relation to this issue I have never seen on this board or anywhere else that the WTS "sends out people as criminals to engage in criminal behaviour".
Where are Franz's comments on the WT policy or comments on this problem for as far as I know Franz does not post on this board or indeed on any other forum?
Franz's comments were posted by Amazing who interviewed Franz specifically to get his thoughts on this issue. So you will find them somewhere in Amazing's posts.
From whom should you demand the truth? The WT Society has been as open and transparent about this matter as is possible and appropriate because it may not be to your liking does not mean that the matter is as you describe.
They have done no such thing. Barbara Anderson and Bill Bowen tried for years to get the WTS to deal with this problem. The WTS stood its ground and refused to deal with it until it hit the media. The WTS has had elders go into courtrooms to support convicted child sex abusers and shunned the victims. Victims have been threated with disfellowshipping if they talk about the issue. There are dozens of stories on this site alone. It's not to my liking because silence or ineffective policies only supprt the abuser. If they were really open and transparent they would turn their list of over 23,000 accused abusers in to the authorities. As far as I know it was never turned over.
As I have said earlier nothing I will say will turn aside the satanic influence that apostates have over you but that is your problem and you have to work matters out for yourself and I hope that through prayer, study and associating with the God's people will help you to become spiritually restored.
"the satanic influence" Well sir if the support I have gotten here is satanic then I have no idea what you would call what I got from the WTS.
through prayer, study and associating with the God's people will help you to become spiritually restored.
Ah yes. That's what I've been told. I waited and studied and prayed and went to meetings and supported my elder husband (who abused me and our 2 children) For 40 years I have waited. For 32 years I waited before I read anything apostate. What you don't realize is the damge this did to me and to other survivors. That kind of damage cannot be undone with simply prayer, study and association.
I was a child. I depended on my mother for protection. I depended on the WTS and the elders to protect me. I depended on them to stop the abuse and help me to feel safe in my home and in my bed. Trust is a fragile thing. I have had it broken so many times. Telling me trust the WTS now is like telling me to stick my head back in the noose.
This does not mean I don't believe in God. But I don't believe the WTS has God's blessing. I cannot see that a loving God would allow so many children to suffer and then just tell them to wait.
I will not be engaging with any other posters except yourself on this subject in this forum because I find such a subject too painfull and abhorrent.
Yes it is painful. I feel the pain too. But I have spent the last 20 years speaking out about the issue of child sexual abuse. Joining my voice to the voices of so many others has made some changes. New laws have been made for the protection of children. Most colleges and universities have course about abuse to prepare counselors for working in this exremely emotional and draining field. After 42 years I still remember. I will never forget. And in spite of trying to push the memories and pain away (which never really worked) I found the path of recovery. TALKING. Speaking out. Not only for myself but for all those who cannot speak for themselves.
If people have an issue with the Society over such matters then they should pursue the matter directly with them because they have all of the facts at hand and are able to handle such inquiries with compassion and love as their usual practice.
If the issue was just the WTS then it would be easy to deal with them directly. But we have JWs who post here and continue to support the WT policies. You continue to support this policy.
JWs support those policies in spite of the many people here who say the policy doesn't work. And not only do we say it doesn't work we even tell you why it doesn't work.
It seems to me that in the last few years it has been the WT-branded-apostates that are forcing the WT to look at the problems within the org. That is truly sad. They had a chance to help my family. They failed the first time. They failed the second time. And they failed the third time.
And now 2 of those victims are dead. That's how well the WTS' policy works.
Since scholar is not adressing anyone but Lady Lee on this painful subject, it make me wonder if we all prentended a matter was only contained within one person slife it would make it easier to deal with would it not?
But the painful truth has been brought out in written facts here Scholar, I know you believe sincerely in the wts. But I wonder how much faith you would have if you had personally suffered as many here have, To have the wts "write" that they are loving and supporting is good to read but wait till you need their help. I doubt anyone thinks
Apostates would have you believe that the Society is so evil that it sends out people as criminals to engage in criminal behaviour but this is preposterous.((((((Lady Lee)))))) I really appreciate your replies so eloquent.
Scholar,
I seldom read this board these days, but Lee's headline caught my attention.
I have in my possession a very rare article of correspondance sent by Berlin to the Russian Front 'einstagruppen' who were weary from shooting so many people and were beginning to suffer psychiatric problems from seeing so much death and misery around them. The letter was a 'pep talk' from Himmler's office, commending them on the difficult but historically important work that they were doing in shooting children, their mothers and their grandmothers.
The tone of the letter was in a sinister way very mindful of your opening post and your own attempt to outline the wonders of the WTS and the reason why God must also destroy the apostate 'sub humans', and why raped children must suffer in silence for the better good of humanity.
You have strayed into the dangerous territory of the sociopathic thinker. I hope that you and your friends enjoy your little everlasting paradise Neil, because its foundations are build on the bodies of those who suffered in silence while the robotically arrogant patted themselves on the back for not wasting bullets on them.
Shame on you.
HS
