by prophecor 401 Replies latest members politics
To me, healthcare is a right for anyone who has a voluntary agreement with a provider of healthcare and acts within the terms of that agreement. For anyone who does not, it is a privilege which may be handed out by those with the power and will to do so, or may be withheld.
The word "healthcare" in the above paragraph can be replaced with any other goods or services.
So tell me: why did you wait 18 pages before wading in with something sensible?
LittleToe:
So tell me: why did you wait 18 pages before wading in with something sensible?
I wrote something sensible on the first page. I thought that would have been enough to end the debate. Clearly it wasn't, so I'm back
You don't genuinely expect me to remember anything before Hogmanay, do you? LOL
15% is a lot, that means that 15 out of every 100 Americans do not have coverage.
Yes, and if you're one of those 15 % it's VERY significant.
Lisa, I'm with those who would like you to post some unbiased statistics. Those people you work with who gripe? They still have health insurance don't they? People love to gripe about anything and nothing. Being down here in the trenches with others who don't have health insurance, I'd say your lexus folks with no insurance are the exception and possibly they have plenty of money as in WEALTH to pay their own medical bills. I have never heard anyone say they don't care to have health insurance so they can have satellite TV. I ask you where anyone can purchase a good health insurance policy with a reputable company for the monthly price of satellite TV? Perhaps a group policy with employer contributions for the premiums could be comparable, but not a private policy.
Possibly a gambler, who is today healthy, might feel as you say. People without health insurance would love to have it at an afforable price. And no, not all of us want something for nothing. That's why we have jobs: we prefer to pay our own way.
http://cthealth.server101.com/enough_to_make_you_sick.htm
Enough To Make You Sick
By Gregory Mott
This article originally appeared in The Washington Post, December 7, 1999
Americans who lack insurance coverage are sicker and more likely to die prematurely, according to a new report.
"No Health Insurance? It's Enough to Make You Sick," produced by the American College of Physicians-American Society of Internal Medicine, analyzed data from hundreds of studies of the uninsured done during the past decade. It argues that the uninsured add avoidable expense to the health care system because they are less likely to receive preventive care and more likely to be treated only when very ill.
Other Findings:
Uninsured pregnant women have a 31 percent higher likelihood of adverse hospital outcome than insured pregnant women.
Uninsured children are up to six times more likely than insured children to have gone without needed medical, dental or other health care.
Compared with those with insurance, uninsured Americans are 2.8 times more likely to be hospitalized with diabetes; 2.4 times more likely to be hospitalized for hypertension.
Uninsured Americans are 3.2 times more likely to die in a hospital.
SOURCE: American College of Physicians-American Society of Internal Medicine
© Copyright 1999 The Washington Post Company
http://covertheuninsuredweek.org/media/research/Urban2005.pdf
http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=173900
http://www.cbpp.org/8-30-05health.htm
Number and Percent of People by Health InsuranceCoverage Type, 2000 to 2004 | |||||
Uninsured | Medicaid/ | Job-Based Insurance | |||
Number (millions) | Percent | Percent | Percent | ||
| 2004 | 45.8 | 15.7% | 12.9% | 59.8% | |
| 2003 | 45.0 | 15.6% | 12.4% | 60.4% | |
| 2002 | 43.6 | 15.2% | 11.6% | 61.3% | |
| 2001 | 41.2 | 14.6% | 11.2% | 62.6% | |
| 2000 | 39.8 | 14.2% | 10.6% | 63.6% | |
LDH
There is another way to explain this. The US "spends" the most because it "costs" the most for health care here. Without a doubt if you removed the profit component, you would see that our spending would be right around the same amount as Canada et al.
LOL. Which is what I've been saying all along. Private heath care is not good value for money.
If therefore you have public health care funded by taxation, EVERYONE pays less (unwaged are covered anyway) for health insurance and EVERYONE is covered. .
I don't believe for one second it's my responsibility to care for my neighbor when he hasn't shown any effort to care for himself.
LDH, you won't be. Under a public health system where you would be paying for your neighbour who "shown any effort to care for himself", YOU WOULD STILL BE PAYING LESS THAN IN A PRIVATE SYSTEM.
18 pages and you don't get this simple fact; you're so busy trying not to pay for other people you miss the fact if you did you'd pay less as an individual.
Free charity, ain't it great?
And please don't try to do anything as purile as post random anecdotes or news articles making out public health systems produce a less healthy society when all the statistical proof (which you don't respond to) is that the standards of heath in a society with private health care are lower than those with public heath care What will you do next? Imply that private doctors are less liable to error than public doctors?
LDH, you won't be. Under a public health system where you would be paying for your neighbour who "shown any effort to care for himself", YOU WOULD STILL BE PAYING LESS THAN IN A PRIVATE SYSTEM.18 pages and you don't get this simple fact; you're so busy trying not to pay for other people you miss the fact if you did you'd pay less as an individual.
Abaddon, 18 pages and YOU still don't get that in THIS country, health insurance is a for profit-game. You don't really think my personal opinion in this whole thing is why the country has not established socialized medicine?!?!? I'm flattered! And saving money would be great, BTW. My premiums also increase on a yearly basis.
At the end of the day, the voters decide when propositions for socialized medicine are on the table.
Time after time, the VOTERS ("aka" American Citizens) do NOT want Government involved in the healthcare industry anymore than they are now. When initiatives are introduced for employer-mandated health insurance, they are overwhelmingly voted against.
I only get 1 ballot.
To me, healthcare is a right for anyone who has a voluntary agreement with a provider of healthcare and acts within the terms of that agreement.
In this country, for 85% of the population, the 'provider' is the insurance carrier. Pay premiums or don't. That's the agreement.
