Unfortunately the country's capitalist economy is not geared toward socializing medicine. Even though I would love to see it happen, I do not think it will for at least a decade or more.
As to whether I think it is a right or a privilege, I believe it is a privelege. However, seeing as how the USA is the only industrialized country to not have socialize medicine, it gives the impression that it should be a right.
A stronger argument for socialized medicine is the fact that, if implemented properly, it could stimulate the economy since, theoretically, healthy people can work or work better.
Also, insurance premiums would go down with more people getting regular check-ups, taking care of minor complaints before they turn into major illnesses. Insurance companies might prefer this, as it would make their product more affordable to those without it as of now.
I am extremely sympathetic towards those without insurance. I had a life-threatening illness some years back and spent a lot of time trying to find and work for an employer whom I could obtain insurance through. It is a very demoralizing experience and I can defenently see how this process contributes to a depressive lifestyle, further increasing the risk of health complications. Although politically I lean heavily toward the Socialist-Libertarian end of the spectrum, I cannot purport to have the answers as to how socialized medicine could work here in the states. However, medical help does vary greatly state to state. For instance, in the State of California, county hospitals give away $3-5 billion per year in treatment to those without insurance and with no source of substantial income. It is trully a blessing, and I am eternally thankful for it.
Health Care: A Right or a Privilege?
by prophecor 401 Replies latest members politics
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daniel-p
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mrsjones5
I vote for universal healthcare in the US
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FlyingHighNow
Can be a touchy topic...when government leaders are oft quoted as saying "it is our responsbility to ensure the safety etc of our people" then I put health care in line with 'rights'.
I agree with this. A country is only as great as its individual citizens. If a good portion of them are ill with no medical care, or working themselves to death to pay for health insurance and copays.... Then you are going to end up with a crumbling country as we found the Soviet Union when the iron curtain fell.
It is a myth that only lazy deadbeats don't have health insurance. Most of the people in this country who have no or inadequate coverage are working class people.
Look around you at your great country of the US of America. This country will not stay great when it does not care about the health and well being of each and every citizen within its borders.
We can afford it. Hell, when you add up the money we all spend for taxes, starting with fed, state, city, county, sales and then taxes on products we all use and those we don't all use such as alcohol & tobacco, how much do you think this adds up to? A doctor,who used to post,here pointed out that if they just take the taxes &premiums paid now they could afford to insure everyone.
It's become an "every man for himself" mentality in this country. Me, me, me. Screw you, you, and you.
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LDH
I have a job. I don't have insurance. I work sick if I possibly can. A few weeks ago, I had strep throat. I was not allowed in to work. I also could not afford to go to the doctor. So I endured a month of being ill and working through most of it. The uninsured in this country generally do work. The very poor get health coverage in many states. The wealthy obviously have it. Some who work are very lucky and their employers provide it. Then there are employers like mine who require that you work a certain number of hours each year. They also work diligently to make sure only a handful ever can make that hour quota. So I am forced to work two jobs. And at times three jobs. I still don't health coverage.
FHN,
This kind of thing always baffles me, I will admit it. I have worked my whole life and always had health insurance. At one point, I was a single parent and I still paid for health insurance for myself and my child. And I wasn't rolling in the dough.
How exactly does one have two or three jobs and no health care coverage? I've never even considered a job offer that didn't include full benefits. I've never had a full-time job that didn't offer benefits. What kind of work do you do that forces you to work two or three jobs with not enough money for the basics?
Do you have a family doctor? I don't understand why you didn't go and make payment arrangements. Why in the world would you be sick for a month? I honestly am baffled.
Employees who leave employers because benefits are not provided should be sure to indicate that's the reason they're leaving on their exit interview.
What state do you live in?
Lisa
Curious Class
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fairchild
Ouch prop, don't get me going on THAT one.
Yes, I believe that health care should be a BASIC RIGHT for every human being on earth, and not something which is available to a select few.
I have lived in Europe and now I live in the USA. What a difference! I have a job which doesn't offer benefits, so I don't have health insurance. Every time I am caught up on hospital bills, something else happens and the hospital bills pile up again. I have tried for years now to get ahead a little, but each time I do get ahead I end up spending it on a hospital again. I am 43 and won't be getting any younger or healthier. I am not sickly or anything, just some freak things. Cut my knuckle off a few years ago, had a pot of boiling soup fall on me and cause many third degree burns, a block of ice fell on my head which needed 22 stitches, had kidney stones and pneumonia, and now heart problems. That really isn't so bad over a span of 14 years, but what's bad is that the total of those unfortunate events has now cost me close to TWENTY THOUSAND dollars, all of which has come and is still coming out of my own pocket, this is completely ridiculous. Until the day I die, I will never be able to save a penny. I am not the kind of person who runs to the doctor all the time. If I go once every other year, it's a lot. But the kidney stones did get me in the hospital. Afterwards, I got a detailed bill from the hospital which outraged me far beyond words. Get this. The ACT of sitcking a needle in my vein to put in an IV (I am not talking about the IV itself, I am JUST talking about the ACT of sticking the needle in my vein, cost 44 dollars! The IV itself (a bag of water with some sugar, really) was $160, what kind of criminal can get away charging $160 for a bit of water? God forbid, they had to add a few drops of morphine to the IV, there went another $96, would you like me to go on? No, I won't or I will burst with anger.
And here comes the kicker.
Fall of 2005 (recently).
I was not feeling well and had serious spells of dizziness, I also fainted about once a day. The dizziness got worse to a point where I had to call a friend to help me get dressed in the morning, 3 days in a row. On the third morning this friend insisted on taking me to the emergency room. I refused because I knew it would be thousands of dollars again.
The next day.. September 30th. Even with help, it is very tough to get dressed and walk. My friend takes me to urgent care. We arrive there at 9am and it doesn't open until 11am. We sit in the car for two hours. When they open the door we walk in. Urgent care is cheap but one has to pay up front. $125. I don't see a doctor, just a nurse practitioner. I am told that there is something wrong with my EKG annd I need to see a specialist. Unfortunately they can't refer me to a specialist, because my regular care physician has to do that. Since I haven't been to a doctor in years and the doctor I used to go to moved, I tell them that I don't have one.
Still September 30th. I spend most of the day calling around to doctor's offices in the neighborhood to see if anyone who can see me and act as my regular doctor. I am told the same thing at 6 different places "We are not accepting new patients at this moment" Now I am running out of options in my immediate neighborhood and I start calling doctors further away. I finally find a place where I can go to 40 miles from where I live. However, because I will be a "new patient" I have to wait my turn. My appointment is not until October 21st. I know that there is something wrong with my heart but I have to wait THREE weeks to see a doctor.
In the meantime I can't work, obviously. Without benefits, one does not get paid for being home sick.
October 21st. Finally, there comes my appointment. Do I see a doctor? No, I don't. I see just another nurse. She confirms that there is something wrong with my heart and even explains to me that I have a blockage, according to the EKG. She makes an appointment for me to have tests done at a hospital, 10 days later on October 21st. Soon I get the bill, it is $98.
October 31st. I have now been home from work for one full month. It is the day of the test. Worried about money, I inquire about how much this test is going to cost. I am told $900. During the test I am told that they can't get a clear picture of my heart on the monitor because my rib cage is too tight. I will have to schedule a different test which is going to cost $2000. Ater the test a woman comes and talks to me, she promises me that forms will be sent to me, when I fill them out I will get a reduction on the amount due. I never saw the paperwork to fill out, neither did I see a bill for $900, instead, the bill was $1275 and I am currently paying off on it.
Mid November, I don't remember the exact date. I passed out at Walmrt and someone insisted on taking me to the emergency room. I was there for three hours and haven't seen the bill yet, but it will be several thousands of dollars.
November 22nd. I am now going for the additional test because they couldn't do the job right the first time. It is now almost TWO months since my heart problems, I still don't know how serious it is, I still don't know anything. The second test does not cost $2000 like they said it would, but it ends up costing close to $3000.
December 28th. Almost three months have passed now. I have a ton of bills. I still don't know what is wrong with me other than that I have a blokage in my heart, it is called RBBB (Right Bundle Branch Blockage.) Nobody has told me the results of the tests and I don't even know if I'm expected to call that nurse again, or what is supposed to be next. All I know is that I have more bills than I can afford to pay, it will take me several years to pay them all off. In the meantime, work doesn't want me full time because they want to know what's going on first and they don't want me to drop dead at work. I have been working 1 day a week since the middle of November, after not working during the month of October.
I have decided to let everything go, I will not be pursuing this any further or have any more tests done, because my hospital debts are already very high. I take good care of myself and eat healthy, but that's all I can do.
And this is just ONE story. I know that there are many people like me, people who need medical care but can't afford it. It is sad and it is not right, it just isn't right.
Of course, when one complains about a system then they also have to offer an alternative to improve the system. Improvement is really simple, very, very simple. Cut the "I can sue you" crap once and for all. Doctors pay such a high amounts to insurance companies in case they get sued.. Let's start with cutting all that crap. Doctors are human and can and will make mistakes. Every person should have a full choice of which doctor they want to go to (Many people with health insurance have limited choices because their doctor needs to be on the "approved" list). So when a person has a full and complete choice of which doctor to put his or her trust in, then they also have to realize that it is THEIR choice to use that doctor. If that doctor makes a mistake they need to realize that they chose to go to this doctor and that this doctor is human, just like they are. Getting a second opinion for serious health matters should be an option as well. Now that the suing crap is out of the way, doctors can start charging a lot less. One should not have to pay $98 to see a nurse for a whole 10 minutes, this is ridiculous.
Now, let's take half of the money which is spent on weapons and warfare and use it as funds for people who don't have health insurance. Or even better, let's use it to provide health insurance which is affordable to everyone. Let's also cut the wages of the politicians a bit and use some of that money as well. And not for nothing, let's take a look at how much money is being paid to people who work for the towns. I don't mean to offend here, but just the other day I saw FOUR town trucks in my street with a total of EIGHT workers, just to cut off ONE branch of a tree which was hanging over the street. Let's face it, they are notorious for that. The joke is well known here.. "One to work, one to hold the lunch packs and one to watch from the truck". A friend of mine who works for the town told me once that he HAS to play the "I am lazy" game or there is trouble. One has to go with the (slow) flow. There too, is a lot of money which could be spent on better health insurance.
I am sure that many are not aware of the health insurance problems in America, or the incredulously high amounts which doctors and hospitals charge.
A friend of mine had open heart surgery last winter. Price $100,000 (One hundred thousand dollars)
Another friend's hubby had a liver transplant and died a few months later. She had to declare bankrupcy, and she DID have health insurance, but the co-pay alone drove her into the ground financially.
One of my co-workers had his appendix taken out and went to work 4 days later, he could barely walk, but he doesn't have health insurance and couldn't afford to not have an income.
Another co-worker has had a hernia for 2 years now and it is really bad at times. Without health insurance, the so needed surgery is out of the question. He suffers every day.
All I can say is, god forbid one gets sick without health insurance, it ruins your entire life. I don't think there is anything which can make me more furious that the health insurance subject.
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FlyingHighNow
I'd rather wait for something than know that my country would rather see me dead than pay for some medical expenses.
There are many who believe there is Social Darwinism and a Backdoor Holocaust operating here. Not only are many uninsured, but the current administration has fixed it so that you cannot write off catostrophic medical costs any longer, in a bankruptcy. So many will choose to die rather than to get health care. And certain of our leaders can coldly turn their heads while this happens. It is their reasoning that we are all going to die someday anyway. But the problem here is that those people tend to be wealthy and depend on the middle working class to make their money for them. What will the wealthy do when there are fewer and fewer of the working class healthy enough or alive enough to keep their companies going?
It's also easier to overtake a country where many citizens are in poor health and those in charge are all consumed with their own riches and comforts. All great empires fall. It will be no different for the USA. And it is greed and selfishness that will take us down.
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SixofNine
"exit interview."
"Exit interview"???? lol, wtf? That's a different world than a huge percentage of America lives in, Lisa.
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daniel-p
"What kind of work do you do that forces you to work two or three jobs with not enough money for the basics?
Do you have a family doctor? I don't understand why you didn't go and make payment arrangements. Why in the world would you be sick for a month? I honestly am baffled.
Employees who leave employers because benefits are not provided should be sure to indicate that's the reason they're leaving on their exit interview.
What state do you live in?"
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Some companies make it very hard for employees to obtain health benefits. Sometimes there are rules as to how many hours you have to work at a particular job in order to recieve benefits. Often times, these companies which offer low-wage jobs will schedule their employees to work just under the 35-hour quota that classifies on as "full-time." I know because I have seen many of my previous managers purposely schedule employees in this manner so that at most you get maybe 32 hours a week. Also, more and more employers require that your first 90 to 120 days on the job is in some sort of "trial" period where you are not considered a permanent employee. Then, if they hire you as a "permanent" employee you may have to work another 90-120 days in order to qualify for health insurance.
More and more corporations are doing business this way, including companies which have historically offered good health packages. For example, UPS. Their drivers used to work 40-50 hours a week and were paid good wages and had health benefits. Now the majority of their drivers are forced to work just above the part-time level so that they are not considered a fully-priveleged employee. -
sammielee24
flyinghigh - you are not alone. According to the stats (somewhere online but I don't have the link handy), the majority of uninsured and under-insured are in fact working people/families. They either make a little too much to qualify for state assitance or they earn less than the median which would allow them to buy their own insurance. The highest number of bankruptcies occurs in college educated/working class families and is due to medical issues. Wether or not a person is able to work as president of a company or at Mcdonalds, shouldn't affect their ability to obtain fair, standard and universal medical care. Do we devalue people so easily? I guess this is the same to me, as hearing people being slammed for having been a witness with the assault coming from a place of blame toward that witness. Would this were a perfect world, then children of 6 million JW's wouldn't be raised in the society and then have to spend years sorting out their life in fits of depression and anger. I guess I'm too soft, maybe too much compassion for people....maybe I've been around too many hard working, honest people who work to survive. Anyway, I still do find it interesting that the US is one of the last hold outs as far as universal health care - samswife.
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daniel-p
"Exit interview"
Yeah, I can imagine a restaraunt owner doing an "exit interview" to an illegal immigrant dishwasher when he finds another job or when he doesn't show up to work.
Or a Subway (the sandwich people) manager doing an exit interview to a kid who just got accepted to college and is quiting.
I don't think so. The managers in a lot of places are complete idiots and/or jerks - I have never had an exit interview even though I always gave my 1 month or two week notice before I quit. In some places they even would have preferred me to leave immediately because then they could just have me out of their hair and not have to worry about scheduling me anymore.
Believe me, the days of some guy starting out on the "ground-floor" and working their way up to CEO of the company are over. Work ethics are as loosely defined as morality in society and digital copyright laws.