Health Care: A Right or a Privilege? (page 33)

LDH

OK, we should stay on track and not deviate to 'vacation time'.....

Here's something for you to consider. You have been warned. (see bold). Start planning.

It's quite clear to me at least you have very little empathy or understanding of the reality many people in the US find themselves in regarding health care issues. Since you don't seem that way on other issues -- this seems to be a 'blind spot' for you.

I call that, "poor planning."

You've heard people from every major English speaking (and others) in the world tell you 'a national health care system' IS working in their countries. Somehow, that means nothing to you. You challenge us to "show me a plan" yet you ignore all the suggestions people have given from the US and those other countries.

Your basic rejection of fair public health care boils down to "I don't trust the politicians." Well...BIG WHUP ! Who does ? Yet you and I still vote for them, don't we ? Somehow, someway -- it sorta works. That will never change.

I am too busy to do research to "show" you anything. I feel certain it will not change your mind. That's cool, you're entitled.

I've done my own research thru personal experience lately. I am well aware of what help is or is not available in my county & state and what the feds say, too. I don't have the answers, I do know this system is broken.

People with empathy will fix it, you can be sure of that.

And that's all I have to say to you about that.

Peace, Rabbit

FlyingHighNow

Here's something for you to consider. You have been warned. (see bold). Start planning.

Lisa, your quote box was blank, or you forgot to bold the type. I guess my presbeopia is worse than I thought. Hehe.

When uninsured people end up with medical bills we can't pay, in many kinds of ways everyone pays. It only makes sense to find a way to ensure a plan, so that no one's medical bills are left unpaid. We all will win this way. And America will become a healthier, more hospitable place for all of her citizens, from the youngest to the oldest.

Maybe an emapthetic trend towards national healthcare would start America down a road toward compassionate policies that would improve the quality of life for all of us. It's already obvious that selfishness and greed spread like wildfire in our country and it's policies and laws. Perhaps some empathy and compassion guiding laws and policies could spread, too. Maybe not like wildfire, but one law at the time, one brick at the time.

Empathy in policies and law works for Sweden where their budget stays balanced most of the years. Their unemployment rate is low. Citizens pay taxes at a 30% rate unless they have a very high income and it climbs higher. For that they receive excellent medical care, paid family leave, subsidies for housing, childcare and many other kinds of help should they need it. They don't lose sleep at night worrying over such things.

LDH

Empathy in policies and law works for Sweden where their budget stays balanced most of the years. Their unemployment rate is low. Citizens pay taxes at a 30% rate unless they have a very high income and it climbs higher. For that they receive excellent medical care, paid family leave, subsidies for housing, childcare and many other kinds of help should they need it. They don't lose sleep at night worrying over such things.

FHN, I've often thought that if I had a choice where I would have been born, it would have been a Nordic country for MANY reasons.

However, here I am in the good ole' USA, and our system wasn't set up to function like the system in other countries, for a lot of reasons.

I have to take the good with the bad, but understanding the system of health care and how to navigate it does help.

Lisa

FlyingHighNow

FHN, I've often thought that if I had a choice where I would have been born, it would have been a Nordic country for MANY reasons.

We agree on this. We are faced with reality everyday. That reality is that for now, the US of A doesn't run like Scandinavia. There are always conservatives who try to change the welfare state in Sweden though. So far they have not been successful at it. A social democrat leader was assasinated. A consertive leader was elected, then the social democrats came back into power. I hope for Sweden that things continue as they are and improve where they need to.

Meanwhile here at home, we live with the reality we live with. In reality, healthcare is a privilege and even luxury for most Americans. Should it be that way? I think that is the question this thread is asking. No it shouldn't. When so many other first world countries provide excellent medical care for all of their citizens. When they ensure that none of their citiznes are denied care or go broke when confronted with injury or illness, it gives us all pause for thought. We ask, why doesn't the US prioritize ensuring that all her citizens are provided with medical care? Why don't we all demand that?

It's obvious that our system is in a crisis. Things cannot continue the way they are indefinitely. Policies will ultimately have to change. The slowness of it has to do with people in the position to, to grab all the money they can before their honey pot dries up. It could be that while all this feet dragging is going on, that some catastrophe will brew and make immediate change necessary. Nothing like a good old wake up call.

Abaddon

As far as whether a private or public health system goes, I think the case is closed. sammielee24's stats put the nails in the coffin;

the US spends the most on health care, in both dollars and in the total share of economic activity. According to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, while the US spends roughly 13% of its GDP, Switzerland spends 10.7%, Germany spends 10.6%, Canada spends 9.1%, Japan spends 7.8%, and the United Kingdom spends 7.3%.

SO the US spends most. They MUST have the best quality of health, surely?

Even though the high expenditure in the US may be equated with superior medical treatment, in terms of life expectancy and infant mortality, the health of the average American is below that of other industrialized nations.

Huh? But how can this be?

Before Canada implemented their national health program, their health costs were the same portion of their economy as in the U.S. After they implemented their program, their costs stabilized at 9% while U.S. costs have increased to 14%.

So in as direct a comparison as possible, going from private to public has SAVED money.

I note you don't address these stats LDH - is that because there is no way to address them?

At the risk of repeating the obvious, inefficiencies in public health care can be worked on. The profit motive in private health care can never be 'worked on'. Thus, as the stats show, a reasonably well-run public health care system will provide cheaper, better quality health care on average than a private system, and reduce social inequality.

Now, because such VAST profits are there to be made and shared around the political funding merry-go-round, there is a total lack of will to change the US system. Any politician backing public health care stands to see his election funds reduced. A vast raft of disinformation and mis-statement will lead people to think the alternative to private health care is dire public services, when this is totally untrue.

The great success of the US oligarchy is selling a political and legal system to those who have less than a 1 in 1000 chance of joining the loigarchy to embrace the principles which support the oligarchy but actually put the majority at a disadvantage. The "American dream" is a nightmare for the majority. You got rid of a King and replaced it with an equally insensate form of government!

LDH

SO the US spends most. They MUST have the best quality of health, surely?

Hi there cutie pie.

There is another way to explain this. The US "spends" the most because it "costs" the most for health care here. Without a doubt if you removed the profit component, you would see that our spending would be right around the same amount as Canada et al.

I must have said at least 5 times in this thread that you can not remove the profit motive from companies playing the health insurance game in this country. I've also made it clear that I do not see this as a good long-term solution which is why I work in the non-profit sector of the marketplace.

However, for anyone to say that 44 million people are uninsured because they 'can't afford it' is utter bullshit. A GOOD PORTION of those 44 million people are CHOOSING to remain uninsured because they would rather have satellite TV or drive a Lexus.

Those are the people I in no way feel sorry for.

Lisa

"Tough titty," said the mama to the kitty Class

LittleToe

So when you're quite done touching up the titties of the kitties, where do you stand on the concept of healthcare being a right or a privilege?

SixofNine

"A GOOD PORTION of those 44 million people are CHOOSING to remain uninsured because they would rather have satellite TV or drive a Lexus."

Frankly, I think that statement is utter bullshit. Have any data to back up that seemingly outrageous comment?

LDH

LT you coy one, you.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tough+titty+said+the+mama+to+the+kitty

That is a pretty common colloquialism from the Southern part of the US. The entire quote is <"Tough titty," said the mama to the kitty, "but the milk's still good">

I guess you'll understand now, eh?

I don't believe for one second it's my responsibility to care for my neighbor when he hasn't shown any effort to care for himself.

So it is both a right and a privilege, depending on where you are in your life.

Health Care: A Right or a Privilege?

Share this