Health Care: A Right or a Privilege?

by prophecor 401 Replies latest members politics

  • LDH
    LDH
    If as a taxpaying individual, I am paying more in taxes already to fund a poor public fund, then why would I not simply want it switched to a better system that includes all people? The only reason that I wouldn't want to switch, is if I had something to lose financially.

    Or, because more taxes are being paid =more bureaucratic waste and less services in the long run.

    Sammie do you have any comments on the state of our socialized retirement, aka "Social Security."

    How could we ensure the fiscal health of another government program when we can't manage the program we've got now?

    We have already tried socializing financial services in this country, and with horrible results. Health Insurance is a financial service, it is a risk tool.

    Lisa

  • LDH
    LDH
    There wil be no 'social security', as currently administered, for the 30 and 40-something crowd.

    Yeah, that would be me. I already am FORCED to pay into a retirement system that will not be there when I'm ready to retire. This results in more money being taken from me, because I have to have two retirement plans. One that the government runs which will never materialize, and one legitimate, or private one that I fund personally.

    What happens when we bankrupt public health care, and I turn 65? If you can't answer that question, please answer how you could fix Social Security in a way that is NOT a Ponzi scam.

    Socialized programs rely on a certain number of individuals paying into the program. Look at Italy, who are having a horrible time because there are no young people to replace the older crowd. The country is going bankrupt slowly but surely. There aren't enough payors to support the claimants.

    Lisa

    401K Match Class

  • barry
    barry





    I also should explain when we go to the doctor we sometimes have to pay the difference between what we get back from medicare [the government health insurance ]and what that particular doctor charges. Some doctors do what we term bulk billing in which case you would pay nothing. The hospital charges nothing either for a bed or for specialist doctors. eg My wife goes to a specialist doctor we pay$95 fee and then claim back$70 from Medicare.I had a time in hospital about two years ago I sliced my arm open from a running model aeroplane engine. I pleaded with the doctors just to stitch me up so i could get home quick. It was two days before xmas and I had things to do. The doctors explained I would require a specialist doctor in my case because they were unsure of what damage had been done and i might end up dissabled so I had to waite another 24 hours fo rthe specialist. They put me right out for the operation I didnt want that either but here I am not dissabled and it didnt cost anything for the hospital or doctors.

    I dont beleive our health care has suffered because of this system as recently two of our doctors got an award for finding stomack ulcers are caused by a certain bacteria. Also our doctors are very good with micro surgery and they have developed the procedure and have trained doctors all over the world including the states.

  • barry
  • under74
    under74

    LDH-Italy ranks among the World Health Organization’s top 10 countries for quality healthcare services (by contrast, the U.S. only holds 37th place, despite being the highest spender.) Italy, although not considered a rich country, has in the past 7 years had a budget surplus unlike the US. It's not going bankrupt....the US is. you know, there could be a balance if our government didn't allow drug companies and insurance companies (this is not a slight at you) to run the show. Our government would have more than enough money to fund healthcare if we didn't have this "you get what you pay for" or "nothing is free" attitude.

    Barry- I've heard the claims from US drug companies and the government that they are the ones making progress in medicine....but all I see are allergy, depression (w/ side effects) and sexual dysfunction medications. Good to know doctors elsewhere are working to help things that need real fixing.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    How sure are you that your 401K is going to be worth the paper it's written on, by the time you come to cash it in?

    I don't see how any form of insurance / pension is inviolable. If it collapses it collapses, whether administered by the Government or some private institution / company.

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24
    LDH-Italy ranks among the World Health Organization’s top 10 countries for quality healthcare services (by contrast, the U.S. only holds 37th place, despite being the highest spender.) Italy, although not considered a rich country, has in the past 7 years had a budget surplus unlike the US. It's not going bankrupt....the US is

    ..also if I'm not mistaken, Denmark, which has some of the most progressive social care in the world, is on a strict fiscal budget and is aiming to be debt free as a country in about another 4 years. If I am not also mistaken, the USA is one of the only countries in the industrialized world that does not have mandatory vacation allottment for it's workers. The amount of vacation time, if any, that you receive in the USA is totally up to the employer as far as I can recall which I think speaks about how little they recognize the link between mental/physical health in their work force. If I'm also not mistaken, the USA may not offer maternity benefits or parental leave for it's work force, another benefit most people in this same category of nations, does receive. Americans put in more hours on the job and with less time , yet I believe their output is at best equal to other countries and in all liklihood may in fact be less. As for pensions - I only know the stuff I hear - the fear mongering that politicians and their journalists put out - for every politician that tells you there is no money in the fund, another 2 will tell you there is. The problem is when the excess in the fund is removed by the men in charge and used for other projects and never replaced - that creates a shortfall when most often there should be none. sw.

  • LDH
    LDH
    Italy: Aging but Saving

    Italy’s situation is particularly difficult because of its surging aging population. For example, by 2024, it will already have more than 1 million people over the age of 90. Mitigating the demographic forces already at work in Italy will require sustained, coordinated efforts by the public and private sector.

    Research Topic: Capital Markets
    Demographic pressure is expected to continue to drive down Italian household savings flows, further slowing the growth rate of household net financial wealth accumulation, with potentially significant implications for economic growth in Italy. MGI's analysis suggests that – absent dramatic changes in population trends, savings behavior, or rates of financial asset appreciation – Italian household savings will decline at 1.7 percent annually over the next two decades, causing a sharp slowdown in the growth of household net financial wealth, from the historical rate of 3.4 percent over the 1986-2003 period to 0.9 percent through 2024. By 2024, this slowing growth will cause net financial wealth to fall some 39 percent, or €1.8 trillion, below what it would have been had the higher 1986-2003 growth rates persisted.

    The demographic transition has been underway in Italy for the past two decades. Since 1986 the median age in Italy has surged up 7 years, and over the next two decades it is expected to increase another 9 years, reaching 51 in 2024. Italy will have more than an estimated one million people over the age of 90 by 2024.

    With its aging population and the number of working-age households continuing to grow more slowly than elderly households, the demographic structure of Italy will become increasingly less able to support wealth accumulation, a good proxy for economic well-being. Slower growth in wealth is likely to mean slower growth in future living standards. For the economy, there will be less household savings to support a fast-growing retiree population, and it will become more difficult to support domestic investment and sustain strong economic growth. The fact that the rest of the developed world is experiencing or is about to encounter similar aging trends means that Italy cannot rely on inflows of foreign savings to make up for its domestic shortfall.

    http://www.mckinsey.com/mgi/publications/demographics/index.asp

    I didn't make this up, under 74. If you're going to take a position you should be able to cite independent sources.

    Sammie, we don't have mandated vacation times over here, it is determined by the employer. I lived in Puerto Rico for a while and the 30+ days of vacation got a little wacky. Every week was some random holiday. I prefer the work ethic of the American worker, even if it was originally foisted on them, they have adapted.

    Also the higher ranking position you have, the more ability you have to negotiate this type of perk.

    We have FMLA (Family Medical Leave Act) which is for any family medical situation, I think it's twelve weeks per year, plus any vacation time you have. I think it's plenty of time for most situations.

    Also want to make the distinction since we have gone off track a bit--you can get medical care even if you don't have any insurance. You will just have to pay for it. Health insurance and Health care are not the same animal. Health insurance was designed to protect financial resources, not provide health care. Does that make sense?

    Lisa

  • LDH
    LDH
    I dont beleive our health care has suffered because of this system as recently two of our doctors got an award for finding stomack ulcers are caused by a certain bacteria.

    Barry, I read this a few years back. I don't think anyone is saying that 'American doctors are better.' Just wanted to make that point.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe
    you can get medical care even if you don't have any insurance. You will just have to pay for it.

    What happens if you haven't the funds? Lets take cancer as an example.

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