by BluesBrother 307 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Sunspot
    1)Does leaving JWs leave every one so bitter? 2) Is it not possible to have any happy memories? 3) Does every single belief , moral , value disintegrate?

    1) Mostly everyone, especially those with a brain.

    2) Some do, but the WTS has become tired, boring , stale, and rehashed as far as teachings go....and more demanding and tyrannical as far as living goes. When the sheep are told that they "couldn't/shouldn't/ better not" leave a district assembly for lunch (for instance), it goes a long distance from bordering on the ridiculous. Before I left. we were even told that we could not have our lunch (after travelling for HOURS with not much money to spend) in the manner we had done this in previous years. The WTS viewed it as "tailgate style" and we were told that we were not at a sporting event.....this is ONLY the tip of that monstrous iceberg known as WTS Rulez & Regz.

    3) I now have very substantial beliefs----that are not "subject to change" due to a whim of a WTS writer. Reading my new bible (the NWT is twisted garbage---a by-product of twisted minds and teachings of men in Brooklyn who have no more control over your salvation than Donald Duck).

    The teaching to the now-dwindling masses of JWs that all who leave the WTS have no morals or no goals, etc more twisted teachings of those same men I mentioned before. I live the same way, with the same values (maybe MORE becase I don't ask someone what religion they are before I either help them or befriend them as you do) and I lead what you may think is a boring (but satisfying TO ME) life!

    I have the FREEDOM to choose who I wish to associate with, where I wish to go, and more importantly---where I choose NOT to be EXPECTED TO GO at at least five times per week! I can choose to speak to others about my Lord and Savior when the occasion arises (and it DOES---more often than you might realize) and I am not seen a a pest banging on people's doors to tell them what THEY are in essence, doing all wrong and that becomiing a JW is the only way they will gain God's approval!

    I am no longer critically judgemental over "other religions" as I used to be, and I am a LOT more at ease with others and not continually "on guard" because I know I cannot be someone's friend unless they agree to a "study". I am an entirely different person---all in a postive sense, but I DO have 30 years of issues and a wrecked family that I am forced to cope with BECAUSE of my involvement in the "religion that shows love". My nonJW family never saw it that way.

    I should mention the JOY of Christ that has replaced the drudgery of the "joy" of being a JW, subservient to the demanding and devious WTS.....but I know my words will fall on deaf ears and have no meaning for you. The sham that you are taught to believe that is the Christ---and how very VERY LITTLE you actually know and truly appreciate about not only extremely sad, but pitiful. You do not know him----nor does he know YOU. The trade-off is too precious to me.....and although you mistakenly believe this---your allegiance to the WTS is NOT the means to salvation......not even close.


  • FreeWilly


    I've noticed this too. JW's rehearse their arguements for only one audience. When I've spoke with JW's whom I've served with and know quite well they still revert back to a JW vs householder routine.

  • stevenyc

    3) Does every single belief , moral , value disintegrate? One would have to ask in reply, why would any single belief , moral , value disintegrate in God's spirt-directed organization?


    Baptisms are usually performed at assemblies and conventions of Jehovah’s Witnesses. At the conclusion of the baptism talk, the speaker will ask the baptism candidates to stand and answer the following two questions in a loud, clear voice:

    On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

    Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization?

    Affirmative answers to these questions constitute a "public declaration" of the baptism candidates’ faith in O

    rganized to Do Jehovah.s Will Page 216 the ransom and of the fact that they have unreservedly dedicated themselves to Jehovah. (Rom. 10:9,10) Baptism candidates will therefore want to give prayerful advance thought to these questions so that they can answer in harmony with their personal convictions.


  • Sunspot

    Big hugs to YOU, Ian! I had to take a break from all the forums I usually post to for the week or two before Christmas! If I "peeked in", I wanted to reply to other's posts, and it became so addicting time consuming that I just had to make the conscious decision to NOT LOOK until we came back from vacation! I'm still not used to or organized enough yet to get this "Christmas thing" down yet.....although I LOVE EVERY ASPECT of it ALL and I am enjoying it immensely! We had a spectacular vacation and Christmas.....despite all of us had a bad year financially.....the time together and the meaningful and often hand-made gifts were heartwarming. I can truly say that being our third Christmas to be celebrated since my leaving the WTS---it was truly the BEST!!!

    Thanks, Stevenyc.....I appreciated that comment!

    Now....on to the subject at hand:


    Do we really need to go over the "charity v ministry" issue again?

    Why not? Have *I* ever discussed this with you? Do you find it uncomfortable? GOOD! It should!

    1...JWs do a tremendous amount of charitable activity. eg Every year , my congregation , like many in the UK , gathers with the local "worthies" and cleans up the town. Sadly , the other churches don't participate. We fill numerous black bags with the discarded needles , beer cans , cigarette butts & other delights of the beautiful world we now live in.

    And as I pointed out----INDIVIDUAL JWs may occasionaly get involved (annually as you said) but the concerted effort BY the WTS is nonexistant. The religion that CLAIMS that it and it ALONE represents GOD.....doesn't have any REAL "love" for the same people they "call on" except to persuade them to become JWs. Maybe the "other churches" you spoke of have been DOING CHARITABLE WORKS all year long, ya think? Just a passing thought.....

    2..The priority is the preaching & disciple making work , just as Jesus performed. He spent little time in "charitable" activities as such , despite the misery around him.

    Yes.....I well know the mantra, Quango. I've recited this myself for many years......while deep down I cringed even while saying it to others who would ask. AFA Jesus spending "little time" in this aspect of his ministry----he only HAD this ministry for about three years! (Or had this escaped your notice?) He demonstrated the CONCEPT of many of these things and spoke of the attitude we should display towards those less fortunate than us. This too, was PART OF AND INCLUDED IN the Christian ministry! Good heavens....You don't shove an "AWAKE!" magazine about the "history of socks" or the sex life of the Tse-Tse fly into a hungry or homeless person's hands......oh wait----you DO!

    Being involved with and actually HELPING OTHERS on a organizational level would certainly be commendable from a (real) Christian point of view! JWs are known to remain far in the shadows when ANY distaster occurs...and after a while, a few lone stragglers MAY show up and fix a roof or two....(and send itemized BILLS to the recipients)....hardly what Jesus would condone, huh? With ALL the $$$$$$ that the greedy WTS soaks up and rakes in.....they have NOTHING charitable to show their Watchtowergod...but then that "god" doesn't care either!

  • johnny cip
    johnny cip

    david saidHey, preaching is exciting to me especially when someone opens the door and ask questions. ; However, in NYC you can have more success reaching and talking to people via the street or subway ministry. ;If the Bible truth does not excite you, then you will not be motivate to spread the Word////////////////////////////////////////// david; in live and work in nyc. i'm on the road all day long. i allways stop and talk to jw's. sometimes dozens a week. trust me 95% of jw's can't answer basic questions about wt doctrine. about 75% only hand out mag's and have nothing much to say. except some pre programed line they memorized. the one's that do talk. turn into zombies, baskets cases. or run down the street. after i ask some hard questions. i have 45 years experence with jw's . i set up jw's to tell me lies ( wt dogma) then expose them for LYING. TO THE POINT THEY TURN RED. AND GET PISSED OFF. if i'm in a good mood , and the jw don't act like a brainwashed dope pusher. i will teach them more truth about how the wt has conned then in 10 minutes . then they ever thought possible. remember i allway like to use one of the lastest wt mag's or last weeks book study to prove . that this jw has no idea. why he believes this propaganda is truth from god. my favorite subject is 1919 and the revelations grand climax book. no jw can explain how jesus is abaddon or that the 7 trumpets of rev. were blown at some 1920's wt convention. ie. the great tribulation. you have to be a complete DOPE TO BELIEVE WT TUESDAY NIGHT STUDY BOOKS. WITH OUT PROVING ALL THING THE WT CLAIMES IN THEM TRUE... JOHN

  • observador

    Hello quango,

    welcome to the forum. It's really wonderful to have some of "Jehovah's people" exchanging viewpoints here.

    The classic example is a 50 something sister in my congregation - divorced. She is very zealous & very bright - university educated with a very demanding job.

    But, brother, you're not following the "Slave's" direction... you sound like praising the sister for having a university education. Didn't you know that having a university education is bad and goes against "God's purpose" for the "true christians"?

    Occasionally she can be quite critical & many of my colleagues regard her as a bit of a loose cannon.

    So, she can be "quite critical" even though she's in "Jehovah's perfect organization"?!!! Humnh.... I thought we were the "happiest people on earth".

    I fight her corner in my body of elders - for one thing , often her criticisms have justification and we can learn from that.

    Brother, why do you have to fight? Are you not going against "Jehovah's arrangements" there? Don't fight, my brother, Jehovah will take care of it; on Jehovah's due time.

    Also I can't believe you're saying we actually "can learn from that".... I thought we could just learn from Jehovah's directed "faithfull and discrete slave" class. If she's complaining, it must be Satan talking through her. Remember the example of Peter?

    Secondly , my wife goes home & can moan at me - this sister goes home to an empty house & has no-one.

    But wait a minute, brother. Don't we have an abundance of sisters and brothers and aren't those who brought us to the "troof" our spiritual fathers and mothers? Why is she alone in such a "worldwide christian brotherhood"?

    Let the beating continue until morale improves.

    The danger is that sisters like her can end up the "Blondies" of the future.

    Now we're talking!!!


  • wombat

    Hmmmm... the Bull Shit Meter is ticking........

    Quango has been a member of this site for 17 days and he has already learned all about Blondie.

    Are you sure that you haven't been here before Quango??

    Hey...if you bump into Erich.....remember him?.....broken English one post and lucid prose the next........tell him that I am disappointed that he didn't reply.

    Nobody waste time on this fool. Let him come back tomorrow under a different name.

  • AuldSoul

    So, David2002, when was the last time you preached in a Temple? Was it because you were unwelcome? I have been invited to speak at many Churches while I was out in the door-to-door work, but always declined to do so. Do you know why I declined? Not because of a lack of about you David2002, why would you decline?

    Would it be because of the stigma attached by this organization to the buildings where "false religious" practices are carried out? Was not the same true of temples and synagogues after Christ died, were they not false religious institutions?

    If the only reason Christians stopped going was because they were unwelcome (even though it was a PRIMARY means of preaching until that time), why do modern Witnesses not follow that example?

    And you also failed to explain why PUBLICATIONS from a manmade Corporation are distributed as part of preaching and teaching. The early disciples used only the Scriptures, I don't know any Witness who could teach all JW dogma with only the Scriptures, do you?


  • ozziepost

    This is off the WTS site. It seeks to allay the fears of newly interested people about the compulsion to gp witnessing:

    If I become one of Jehovah's Witnesses, would I be expected to preach as they do?

    When one becomes filled with the knowledge of the promised earthly Paradise under Christ's Kingdom, one wants to share it with others. You will too. It is good news!— Acts 5:41, 42 .

    Doing this is an important way of showing that you are a disciple of Jesus Christ. In the Bible, Jesus is called "the faithful and true witness." When on earth he preached, saying: "The kingdom of the heavens has drawn near," and he sent out his disciples to do the same. ( Revelation 3:14 ; Matthew 4:17 ; 10:7 ) Later, Jesus commanded his followers: "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, . . . teaching them." He also foretold that before the end, "this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations."— Matthew 24:14 ; 28:19, 20 .

    There are many ways of declaring this good news. Conversation with friends and acquaintances often opens the way to do so. Some do it by writing letters or by using the telephone. Others mail literature containing material that they think an acquaintance would be especially interested in. Out of a desire to miss no one, Witnesses go from door to door with the message.

    The Bible contains this warm invitation: "The spirit and the bride keep on saying: 'Come!' And let anyone hearing say: 'Come!' And let anyone thirsting come; let anyone that wishes take life's water free." ( Revelation 22:17 ) Telling others about the Paradise earth and its blessings is to be done willingly, out of a heart filled with a desire to share this good news.

    We are sure that you have other questions about Jehovah's Witnesses and their beliefs. Perhaps some issues are controversial in nature. We would like to answer your questions. Space is limited in this brochure, so we invite you to ask the Witnesses locally. You can do so either at their Kingdom Hall meetings or when they visit you in your home. Or you may send your questions to Watch Tower, using the appropriate address.

    Would you say they're being totally honest with this?

    In the words of an old Jewish proverb, "A half-truth is a full lie."

  • wombat

    I hope that Quango is having a good time with his kids.

    Sorry but I'm back to the Australia thing.

    Publishers here spent 9 1/2 million hours spreading the good news in 2005.

    That is over 1,000 one-man years.

    That is like a Pioneer putting in a 100 hour month for nearly 800 years.

    Like......that's a lot of time.

    And, at the end of it all, they have 134 publishers less than what they started with in 2004.

    Didn't any JWs have babies 15-20 years ago?

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