by BluesBrother 307 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • JT

    Since we do not keep track of that time informal or incidental preaching, it is not required to be reported


    a acording to what is in Print--mature christian witnesses would report both Informal and formal time spent offering wt theology

  • Dansk
    would report both Informal and formal time spent offering wt theology

    And that's why the apologists come here. They try to stir things up with their drivel, safe behind their computer screens and in the comfort of their own homes, coffe or tea at their elbows, booking their time by using us as an excuse. They know preaching is sheer drudgery so they take the easy way out and no one is really going to question their hours (they daren't, otherwise there'd be even less to report).

    Let's face it, we've seen some significant movements this past year alone. So many newbies coming here - including ex-elders. Over 167,000 leaving Watchtower this year is tremendous news, as are the increasing threats of litigation against it. I cannot see Watchtower increasing anymore, it's reached it's peak. There's only one way to go now - and it isn't up!


  • wombat

    Ian... I just keep learning on this site.

    I could never figure out why JW apologists kept posting here - they get shot down in flames every time. Pure masochism.

    But, as you explained, they are counting their hours on the computer.

    "Sorry, Honey....No need for me to out this week-end. I've got my hours up already".

    Just hope that they don't google ...S..*..X ...whilst they are waiting for a reply.

    The January 15 Watchtower will be a problem for them. No more internet.

    "Honey..Let's get down to the Hall a bit early so I can sort out the maps".........As if.

  • NewYork44M
    Since we do not keep track of that time informal or incidental preaching, it is not required to be reported.

    David2002 I think you are distoring the reality somewhat. I have always been told that informal witnessing should be counted. In fact, publishers were encouraged to keep a daily log of the time spent in the informal witnessing.

  • AuldSoul


    24 times in Acts we see preaching in the Synagogues and the Temples (equivalent of Churches today, they were no longer Jewish law outside of Israel), many more Scriptures use the term publicly, many other times the fact that the preaching is public is evident from the context (e.g. the Aereopagus). Versus 2 occasions in Acts of a mention of house to house where "publicly" or "in the temple" are cited right alongside. So what do you think was the most common form of Witnessing? The one Witnesses today use or public witnessing?

    Why do you suppose they hone in on and emphasize the one form of witnessing Jesus said to avoid? And why did Jesus never encourage that form?

    Luke 10:7 . . .Do not be transferring from house to house.

    I am certain you have been lied to and I believe you have been misled. Also, regarding FS reports...there is no indication that records were sent in routinely to Jerusalem on the efforts of individual congregants. The reports made by Paul and his companions in Acts 15 were informal and were certainly not detailed accountings of hours, "placements," return visits, how many times a Bible study was conducted, etc.

    Placements is an interesting issue, too. There was no distribution to the public of printed material that did the work of Witnessing for the Christians. I am certain you have been lied to, and I believe you have been misled.


  • metatron


    Why did the early Christian congregation grow so fast - and why is the Watchtower suffering a malaise?

    The Bible gives you a clue at Acts 6:7:

    "So the word of God spread" (NIV) And what's the context leading up to this statement? The apostles decided to have

    congregation feed indigent widows - food service!


    This is the very opposite of the trend the Watchtower is following today - they denigrate charity and good works in favor of a

    increasingly sterile "ministry", often of magazine peddling. They lie to each other about "preaching because of love

    of neighbor" - while making jokes about whose house they would like once all the wicked non-Witnesses are

    slaughtered at Armageddon - and "put in their time" so that Brother Elder won't come visiting to harass them about it.

    When James spoke about faith without works, the context reveals that he was thinking about charity towards "orphans and widows"

    - not "preaching". Read it for yourself.

    Early Christians didn't need to be badgered or "reminded" about "getting their time in". People naturally gravitated towards

    Christians because they saw how Christians cared for one another, in the midst of a cruel empire. Little preaching

    was necessary - ask yourself why other religions have growth rates equal to - or better than - Jehovah's Witnesses. In large

    measure, it may reflect that other churches take better care of their parisioners.

    Why does the Society endlessly nag the friends about college education - but never offer their own college to help preserve

    their own subculture?

    Why does the Society ignore the only regular Christian meeting referred to in the Christian Greek scriptures,

    ( "love feasts") while foisting boring and irrelevant programs on Witnesses?

    Child sexual abuse? Is the Catholic church really worse? Catholic leaders have formally and officially apologized

    for events like these - when has the Society apologized for this - OR ANYTHING? Have they ever apologized for

    any of their false prophecies?

    The friends are getting tired of all of it. The Society is hell bent to cut back "services" while demanding "do more"

    from publishers. The cold hearted old men in charge are going in the wrong direction, like King Rehoboam.


  • Axelspeed
    Why does the Society endlessly nag the friends about college education - but never offer their own college to help preserve

    their own subculture?

    Off topic again:

    This was another mistake. I don't know how they could have done it or the details involved in the whole process, but they should have created their own accredited university open to all jws and whoever else a long time ago. The Mormons did it and their membership thrives, and their members feel that they have gotten something, at least, that they can use for life. Whether it would have been Gilead or a completely separate institution, I don't know.

    They have put nothing into preserving their subculture long-term other than pushing more magazines and books. There is nothing here that serves the practical interests of "the friends" for the long term as far as making a living and growing as individuals. Pushing books and magazines can only go so far, and is now becoming completely obsolete as a way to get more recruits. The friends know this even if they arent saying it.

    The friends are not having success with this method, and this is translating to a dutiful, if not negative, attitude toward the door to door work. They just want to "get the time" to keep the elders and CO happy, and earn the salvation

    The result is that even if they do still believe it is The Truth, as met said, The friends are getting tired of all of it. Many more are willing to just take there chances and just live the best way they can in this old system.

    There is no infrastructure because 1/2 of the WT is really a book publishing business, and the other 1/2 really believed their own around the corner rhetoric.


  • David2002


    First, the decline or lack of growth in the late '70's was caused by the Watchtower's false expectations regarding 1975. The malaise that afflicts the organization today is not comparable - in particular because it reflects long term problems with the Watchtower's growth. ; If you examine the ratio of hours spent to baptisms or the ratio of bible studies to baptisms, the problem becomes clear - the "preaching" work has become dramatically ineffective in recent years, despite the efforts to baptise teenagers or dumb down the "truth".

    One can point out, however, that WTS publication never taught that 1975 WILL be the end. And the vast majority remained with the Christian Congregation. As, I pointed out in an earlier post, Witnesess grew from 2 million to over 6.6 million. That a fact. I concede that growth has slowed down. And it takes longer for a person to make up their minds whether to become a Jehovah's Christian Witness. Nowadays, people who study with the Witnesses are sometimes given a library of anti-Witness books, including books on how to respond to Witnesses and books written by Ex-Witnesses. So it may take longer to persuade someone. However, like the apostle Paul, we continue, day and night. talking to people and persuading with the Scriptues. When they see what the Bible really teaches, they eventually decide to become a true Christian. In my opinion, even 100,000 new active publishers is encouraging, not counting the thousands more regularly attending meetings. The preaching work cannot be measured by how many just come. Remember it is the testimony that has to be given, in various ways, so that people can decide whether or not they wish to become part of Jehovah's Christian congregation. One question: what do you mean by "dumb down the truth"?

    Second, ; related to the malaise above, the Society is experiencing cash flow problems in the aftermath of the failure of their voluntary donation arrangement. ; They got rid of food service at assemblies because it turned into a financial disaster as people grabbed everything they could and donated almost nothing at cities like Philadelphia ( ;where I had relatives who worked in food service) They covered up the embarrassment with a lie that it was done to be unified with brothers in foreign countries. ; After that, they cut back on literature shipping ( which I know after being an elder and complaining to the C.O. about late or skimpy shipments). ; They cut back on hard bound books to save money ( I knew a Bethelite in the pressroom who told me the savings were figured to a fraction of a cent per volume). ; They downsized Bethel too - by about 900- 1000 people - as confirmed to me by an overseer in the bindery. ; An auditor told them that getting rid of US ;subscriptions would bring expenses into balance so they dropped a 120 year tradition. ; Even this wasn't enough so they dumped a major part of Awake printing , this year - and have begun to seek more real estate sales in NYC, as well as printing equipment sales in Europe. ; Many people say that the new presses in Wallkill are idle about half the time and much of their cost was paid for by the sale of the Furman building, not the request for $50 million made in the Kingdom Ministry. ;

    The Watchtower has to find the most efficient way to run their printing offices, and if their are ways to save money, synergies, then will do it. I actually was happy when they stopped the food service. I worked twice in the service foods "department" during 2 summer assemblies, and it was alot of work. Many times the brothers would miss part of the program because they had to prepare-get the boxes of food, open them up and set them on the table...and then clean up afterwards. I think the simplified process works much. And anyway, there were always brothers that brought in their own food. Though I do miss those danishes... I was somewhat surprised when my brother-in-law, a former bethelite, told me that they were going to discontinue them to save money. I would have just charge those who wanted them, postage and handling. But the important thing is that means to preach the goodnews is done in the least expensive and most efficient manner.

    The figures given for the 1.3% increase in publishers have little credibility because so many Witnesses are just writing stuff down on a field service report. ; If you follow this website, you can observe many people putting down bogus hours to avoid hassles with lders. I do. ; Want more malaise? ; How many hours did a regular pioneer put in, in years past? ; They put in 100 hours, then 90 hours now 70 hours. ; What makes you a regular publisher? ; 1 hour? ; - now 15 minutes! &nbsp

    No offense, but I think you have no credibility. Just because a few anonymous people on the Internet, claimed they made up hours, does not mean the vast majority of Witnesses did. You yourself admitted that you make up your stats, so how do I know some of your non-verifiable statements are true? We must follow what the Bible says. True followers of Jesus always strive to be truthful, and like Jesus avoid being deceitful (1 Peter 2:20,21). But you correctly noted that pioneer now are only required to be in 70 hours; so that helps explain the decrease in the number of WW hours. Most regular publishers do record more than 15 minutes

    The Society's management has never been so incompetent in relative terms. ; The temptations offered by internet porn, video games, ; public acceptance of homosexuality and more are causing the organization to lose the next generation of Witnesses - while a bunch of isolated numbskulls in the Watchtower do nothing more than finger waving at the problems. ; The gap between the Witness subculture and the world has widened into a yawning chasm - while the Watchtower Society is busy tearing down what little infrastructure of support the friends have. ; They encouraged kids to pursue Bethel life - while downsizing it at the same time

    I strongly disagree with you. You must know that the WT has published articles dealing with Internet porn, video games, homosexuality, etc. Yes they have published a wide variety of material dealing with problems facing today's society. The GB is trying to help the flock as best they can. And I believe they have done a very good job at. There was one article that came out on the Internet porn, about a year ago I believe, and I remember that an Adventist like it so much, that he asked for more copies to help in a study group. And a sister from our congregation gave it to her cousin, a Pentecostal pastor. He requested to make copies to use for a study group designed for men. So even others benefit from the article that are published in the Watchtower and Awake! I really believe that members of the governing body and others "are keeping watch over [our] souls as those who will render an account; that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you." (Hebrews 13:17) Therefore, we should respect them and obey them. We have to be careful not to speak abusively of those who are teaching the wonderful truths of the Bible. (compare 2 Peter 2:10-13).

  • ozziepost


    I really believe that members of the governing body and others "are keeping watch over [our] souls as those who will render an account; that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you." (Hebrews 13:17) Therefore, we should respect them and obey them.

    you poor soul! You've been so misled that now you defend "the Organisation", your masters, with words of idolatry.

    So sad.

    BTW, the only ones we are to obey are God and Christ, as well as follow the leadings of the Holy Spirit. Some geriatric interpreters of the Word don't rate in the obedience stakes.

  • David2002


    But David, don't you see that you (or rather the Watchtower) have limited those same christian works of faith by simply describing, as you do, various ways of proselytising?

    No that is incorrect. Witnesses believe in helping the poor and those struck in recent disasters. They take up special collections when disaster strikes. They have been especially busy helping others this year during the Katrina and Tsunmai disasters. When tragedy struck in Florida, groups of Witnesses went over to help re-build houses of both Witness and non-Witnesses. Many individual Witnesses donate money to other charitable organizations. Witneses in the Nazi camps shared the very little food they had with Jews and other group being persecuted. My daily Yahoo! News alert on Jehovah's Witnesses, which I get daily, contained multiple articles this year on the Witness charitble work alone. It is true that Witneses are sometimes seen just as preachers, but that may be because they are perhaps the most active Christian group in evangelizing. However, they do believe in other good works. And recent press testifies to that.


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