SERVICE REPORT 2005 : WATCHTOWER FEB 1ST 2006

by BluesBrother 307 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  David2002

  Ossie,

  But even if what your saying is true, that the churches you are aware of only count active churchgoers, the point I am making is still not invalidate. What I am saying is that the Witnesses only count those preachers/publishers that report their figures. But the figures of the publishers is always less that those who regularly attend the Kingdom Hall meetings. So compare to other churches Witnesses use a very conservative method of counting. This has been pointed out by several researches including Rodney Stark. (See for example, the adherents.com site which contained a much higher figure of Witnesses than reported in the 1999. A footnote explains that Witnesses only count active publishers - http://www.adherents.com/adh_rb.html#International).
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  David2002

  Obervador,

  I am not in denial. I was merely pointing out the absolute number in the case of the US. And you're right in same cases where a "0" was listed there was indeed a slight decrease in either the average number of publishers or the maxium number. But in those cases the decrease was still less than 1%, so it was no listed in the table. In the US, however, even though it is listed a "0", there was an increase in both the number of average publishers, as well as the maxium number listed. In, any case, there was a global 1.3 increase worldwide, with an increase of 100,697 in peak publishers. So may argument is still statistical. Of course, it may be argued on a biblical basis that a cleansing may be going on. But, according to elders and other Witnesses I spoke, the slow in the growth does not mean many are leaving. But there are a brothers that are inactive in preaching service (even though they still attend the meetings regularly). Saturday or Sunday meeting attendance is still robust. But it appears that some brothers have longer working, with jobs demanding more and more of their time, and may not go out preaching as often (although I hear that many continue to preach informal at their jobs. Since informal preaching is not required to be counted or reported no record of that activity is kept). One other point I hear, is that in the US there is a growing population of elderly brothers. Many of these rarely preach and as result may not appear in the publishers figure. I have not been able to verify it, but was told that the average number of inactive elderly brothers has increased to about 3 per congregation in the US. Yet we recognize them as brothers and sisters which we dearly love (a friend from the UK tells that average in Britian is higher, about 5 elderly brothers. He also mentioned to me that more and more Evangelicals are attending the Kingdom Hall meetings, many of them starting to study with the Witnesses. Apparently, many of them were shocked that American Evangelicals voted for Bush and many of them UK counterparts strongly felt the war was unethical and unchristian. Since they are aware of the Witness stance of neutrality and not serving in the Army, many British evangelicals have taken an interest in what Witnesses teach).

  One other point I would like to make. Some of posters hear appear to be very happy that there has been a slow down, and seem to suggest that major decreases are on their way. True in European countries growth has slowed or stabilized. But Witnesses are still the 2nd largest religious group in Italy, Spain and Portugal. In Japan there has been a slowdown, but again the Witnesses are still the 2nd largest Christian group. And this is just based on the count of active publishers, not including those who attend regularly. Also, there is still an excellent potential of increasing growth. The new book, "What Does the Bible Really Teach" may help spur a large increase. Remember, back in 1978, 1979, 1980. The yearbooks back then showed 1.0 decrease, then 1.4 decrease, and then in 1980 a mere 0.5 decrease. I recalled a TV program where an Ex-Witness gleefully alluded to those numbers, saying the Witnesses are coming to an end. During that were only 2 million members, with 5 million attending the memorial service. However, the figures of active Christians has tripled to more than 6.6 million, while the attendance to memorial service of Christ's death has mushroomed to over 16 million. I believe Witnesses will continue to grow in the near future.

  - David
• 

  AuldSoul

  However, David2002, they do count Memorial Attendance. Which went down this past year.

  Not a lot to do about that unconservative count, eh?

  AuldSoul
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  David2002

  Regarding: However, David2002, they do count Memorial Attendance. Which went down this past year. Not a lot to do about that unconservative count, eh?

  Yes, you're right about that. But it is most likely a temporary decrease. (see earlier post in which I alluded to the 1978-1980 yearbooks).

  - David
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  AuldSoul

  With more publishers averaging fewer hours each, I think I will have to respectfully disagree with you on that one, David. Since meeting attendance is down, memorial attendance is down, total pioneers are down, it looks as though we have seen the crest of the wave during the past year. Without some catalyzing event to charge the indoctrinated we will see a decline in the coming year, because your organization's credibility is about to take some major hits. Very public major hits.

  Given that apostates have never been well organized before, and that we are now on the verge of being organized...I'm afraid the public is about to become rightly very afraid of your religion. Worldwide. Wherever the Internet or CNN reaches. No innoculation of the public has ever been possible on the scale we have at our disposal currently. I recommend that you pray that Zambia has deeper saturation potential than 1 in 90.

  I only ask that you keep one thing in mind: Remember, you were told ahead of time. If growth = God's spirit blessing efforts, then decline = x. Can you solve for x?

  Already there are hundreds of thousands leaving every year. What will they learn while out? Can they be trusted to be free from apostate ideas if they return? How many are in who lie on their Field Service Reports? How many will leave this coming service year who used to tell the truth on their Service report?

  What will it mean when your organization is proven to have lied to its own adherents, and is proven to have done so in a court of law? How can you justify that, when it is written, " In fact, to this [course] YOU were called, because even Christ suffered for YOU, leaving YOU a model for YOU to follow his steps closely. He committed no sin, nor was deception found in his mouth." (1 Peter 2:21-22)

  Remember, you were told ahead of time.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
• 

  David2002

  free2beme,

  Regarding: 1.3% ; Increase in business, means your failing! Mormons are really kicking the JW's asses in converting people. They better hurry up before the end comes.

  You are incorrect. Jehovah's Witnesses are bigger than the Mormons in many countries regions, including Europe. There are several articles that have been written stating the Mormons inflate there numbers. Unlike the Witnesses, Mormon membership figures include inactive members. And according to some Ex-Mormons I know, they were not take out of the church membership roles. Mormons are very much like the Catholics who count members who are no longer active in the church. The July 26th, 2005 Salt Lake Tribune mentioned the fact the Mormon growth is a myth. Interestingly, they mentioned Jehovah's Witnesses have grown much faster. Here's a link to the article http://www.wwrn.org/article.php?idd=18014&sec=16&con=4. Rodney Stark in a study also mentioned that the Mormon presence is insignificant in Europe. Witnesses, in spite of slowing growth (which I believe to be temporary), are a greater active presence in Europe.

  - David2002
• 

  AuldSoul

  Witnesses, in spite of slowing growth (which I believe to be temporary), are a greater active presence in Europe.

  If you still feel the same at the end of the coming year, I'll have to give you full props for sustaining belief in the face of incontrovertible evidence to the contrary. I do hope you won't be too disillusioned if the future proves they've lost the only evidence of God's Spirit they currently have.

  Divorces among JWs are up, domestic abuse is up, child runaways are up, teen pregnancies are up, teen orgies are up...and at the same time, meeting attendance is down, average hours in the ministry are down, total hours are down by 44,000,000 hours (44 million hours), pioneer publishers are down by more than 15,200, COs and BOEs can't get people to study the Watchtower—not even all the elders and ministerial servants, they have nothing to say that is compelling enough for kids to stay out of college, the Internet is part of everyday life for everyone BUT faithful Witnesses—who will further lose touch with the rest of the world as a result, and even you visit apostate sites in contradiction of your leader's direct orders.

  By "leader" I am referring to the GB, not Jesus. Mind you, I wouldn't want you to make any other choice. Since you visit here, I can rest assured that your conscience will plague you mercilessly if you caution others against it. Therefore, any you would have stopped will find us. But you aren't alone, nor would I wish it so. This quasi-religious Corporation cannot sustain itself against the information available on the Internet. Too many people throughout the organization are only staying in to keep family ties intact, how can a house divided against itself stand?

  How will they dupe someone new into believing what they teach after someone finds out what the organization is really all about? I have kept out two myself. I have woken up three others, and have three more well on their way to full wakefullness. The Watchtower Society has already lost. They have no secrets anymore, because information can readily be funnelled to the outside world without them ever finding where it originated from.

  As they become more paranoid and controlling, the outside world becomes freer and more inviting. They have lost. They cannot losen their grasp and hold those who crave control, they cannot tighten their grasp for fear of losing those who crave the freedom of the Children of God, they cannot remain the same for fear of losing both groups. It is only a matter of time before their own grasping nature destroys them completely.

  I ask only one thing of you, David: Teach me about paradise using only the New Testament.

  (1) Who is it for?

  (2) How is it "Good News"?

  (3) Did the First Century Christians teach about it?

  Then read Galatians 1:6-9 and answer me this: Since Jehovah's Witnesses do not bear the name of Christ (i.e. do not come in his name), have NEVER been persecuted for the name of Christ, and do not preach the Good News that was preached by the First Century Christians, why would anyone consider them Christians?

  I hope you will answer these earnest questions publicly, but I will not be surprised if you don't. My respect for you as person will not be lessened so long as you ask and answer them for yourself.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  David2002

  AuldSold,

  I don't think your reply addresses the points I am trying to make. But, how can 1.3% increase in publishers, equal hundreds of thousands leaving each year? It makes no statistical sense. I would have expected to see a decrease of about 3% if that was the case. And again, that 1.3% increase just represents the number of publishers reporting. It does not including the hundres of thousands more that are attending the meetings regularly. While I concede that the memorial attendance was down, congregational meeting attendance is not decreasing and is up. I believe there is a great potential for growth. There are even some repentant Witnesses coming to the meetings, many of which may be reinstated in 2006. Not counting those who are studying. A I think the new book will be boom for increase in Bible studies.

  You say that public is about to to become "rightly afraid of our religion". You sound very bleak. It reminds of when I was young boy listening to television interviews of apostates gleefully saying that the Witnesses are becoming a dead religion. One even said that it was run by a group of old men. That was around 1979. Witnesses number just 2.0 million. Now we over 6.6 million with over 16 million attending memorial service, and at least 14.5 million attending the meetings regularly.

  Apostates can organize themselves all they want. It's their right and privilege. But that does not mean they will succeed. Jesus was called a liar, a blasphemer, a drunkard, and was said to be hanging out with prostitutes and uneducated people. Likewise, today, true followers of Jesus, including the little flock and the ever-growing great crowd are accussed of lying, blasphemy, etc. We have to be careful not to be like those who accused Jesus or the true Christians. Apostates may deceive some but not all. After the apostles of the first century preached the good news its says that "they into the synagogue and spoke in such a way that a large number of both Jews and Greeks came to trust. But the Jews who would not be persuaded stirred up the Gentiles and poisoned their minds against the brothers." (Act 14:1,2 - Jewish New Testament) Apostates have been trying for years to poison as many minds as possible. But the vast majority have stood faithful to Jehovah God, and his Son, Jesus.

  -- David2002
• 

  AuldSoul

  David2004,

  I don't think of what Jehovah's Witnesses do as "Bible study." I doubt you would be able to answer some fairly basic question about you beliefs without going to Watchtower resources for help, and I suspect you study more deeply than the average JW.

  AuldSoul
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  David2002

  AuldSold,

  Just came across your new post. Before I answer your questions, can you answer questions for me:

  1. Why just the NT teaching on paradise?

  2. If I cite a text from the NT that is actually a quote from the OT will you accept as truth?

  3. Why do you deny that Witnesses do not preach in Jesus Christ name? Is it not true that they are motivate to preach the good news because Jesus Christ himself sent him to preach the good news of the kingdom. Also, if Jesus quoted from the OT, why can you not allow Jehovah's Christian Witnesses to quote from it? After all, we follow Jesus sample.

  4. Who truly believe that Jesus is really the Son of God?

  Let me know your answers. If you reply, I will not respond until tommorrow. It's late and I have to wake up early for work tommorrow.

  - David2002