by AuldSoul 101 Replies latest members private
I've also let him know that I am uneasy and already thinking, "Why three?" If I get unsure how the meeting is headed, I'll just politely excuse myself.AuldSoul
That is what I would do.....politely excuse myself.....you got a good head on your shoulders AuldSoul
Told him I hadn't sinned to my knowledge, but that someone else might disagree. He said he wasn't aware of any charges against me but that he couldn't swear no one had accused me of something.
That raises a warning flag.
underlying message: "No, there are no charges, but we won't say that someone hasn't accused you of anything. There weren't two witnesses, we only have that one person's say-so, so we can't formally charge you. That's why we want to meet, to see if we can get you to confess on your own. At that point, we'll see if there will be charges."
The first clue/outreach elder statement which led to my final "purge" was this-"Danny could we meet with you just to touch base"
undercover: "That's why we want to meet, to see if we can get you to confess on your own. ; At that point, we'll see if there will be charges."
Sheez! Sometimes I think we share a brain!
I was thinking the same thing while talking with him. That's why I set it up so he wouldn't expect any confessions. When we were discussing how people ought to come to me first I even inserted the comment, "Because, you know, people can often read a situation or a conversation differently than it really was."
Later on I said, "Well, I haven't gone out seeking anybody to talk with about anything. When people call or stop by and ask questions I answer their questions, but if what I am saying is true I can't imagine why that would be grounds for a Judicial charge, can you? I mean, I'm supposed to 'speak truth' and 'be deceiving no one' right?" He agreed.
I have been grabbed hold of by both ears, I wonder which hand I'm gonna get to eat?
AuldSoul
AuldSoul,
Has anyone mentioned yet that you need to avoid answering the dreaded, "Do you believe that Jehovah has an organization on the earth today, and that it is led by the Faithful and Discreet Slave?" question? The wording may vary, but the intent is the same. If you admit you don't believe that anymore, you're history. Whatever else you say or admit, don't answer that one. "Why do you ask that?" or "I believe everything the Bible says" or ANYTHING that doesn't answer the question is better than an actual answer. (Unless you don't care and DF'ing isn't something you're trying to avoid.)
Just FYI, and if it was already stated, consider it "repetition for emphasis"! :-)
Dave
The answer to that question is "yes" Dave. Of course that doesn't mean that you're referring to the same "F&DS" that they are...
Auldsoul:My spidey-sense is tingling. I think the CO and maybe even the Legal desk may be in on it.
If it were merely a run-of-the-mill shepherding visit then two brothers would come round the house. To invite you to meet at the hall, and especially to have three there, sounds far too formal.
He might not be outright lying, but if anything untoward raises their suspicions (as is likely to happen) then it will be retro-actively deemed a JC. Besides that the WTS like there to have been at least two meetings, if at all possible, for the sake of the S77 form. The likelihood of a follow-up meeting is high, and that one will be declared a JC. In the case of your refusal to attend they would DF you in absentia.
I would seriously consider suing for attempted disaffection of your wife. I've been down this road after I DA'ed, and the end result was a tormented existance, resulting in the end of our marriage. It's an awful thing to see someone that you love dearly turn against you so completely!!!
Being as it is that you're still classed as a JW they have no right, even under religious laws, to cause such an action. The clause they might be attempting is "absolute spiritual endangerment", but given that they haven't DF'ed you (yet), they can't declare this - you're officially still in good standing, and they may be attempting to remedy this caveat!
My good Auld Soul,
I really wish you wouldn't go.
That said, you indeed seem to have a good head on your shoulders, and I'm confident you'll handle yourself wisely. I'm just concerned that even Solomon himself might not evade a Disfellowshipping charge in this organization, given the circumstances. I imagine the same sort of question that Almost Atheist suggests.
"Do you believe that Jehovah has an organization on the earth today, and that it is led by the Faithful and Discreet Slave?"
What amount of wisdom or preparation can help you when faced with that question? Unless you indicate that you believe the WTS is God's sole channel of communication on earth, you may be found guilty of apostasy by them.
I was great friends with the elders in my congregation too. Mostly good guys. One of them used to always confide in me his own concerns about the organization. (While I was the one who kept on speaking positively about "The Truth.") It was also he who chaired the Judicial Committee that DFd me in May of 2004. Later he would call me to admit that he "wasn't sure it was the right decision." He said...
"But what're ya gonna do?"
What're ya gonna do, indeed... These people are not all necessarily disgraceful human beings. As you know, they are compelled to do the things they do by the WTS, to whom they have essentially given their allegiance.
Of course if you're ready to announce your Disassociation anyway, then maybe this is just your opportunity to get on with it. Whatever the case, having been reinstated in March of 2005 and moved many miles away in an attempt to fade, I am especially interested in the outcome of your meeting. I know my day will soon come as well. I look forward to hearing more from you on this.
Isn't it amazing that we ever got involved with a group of people who can pull this sort of legalistic crap on us? We submitted to it for so long we couldn't see the reality of it's evil. Damn we were duped. Now we strike back by ignoring thier asses.
W.Once
Auld Soul, what's your point in meeting if you plan on disassociating? I don't get you at all.
Min:Likely similar to the reason I met with them a couple of times after I DA'ed. The vain hope that you might say something that will make them think...
It's a forlorn hope, but it's not as if anything is lost by it.
