Elders/ex-Elders, is lying to achieve a JC okay? (page 6)

kwintestal

Umm, sorry to burst your bubble here, but I think many would disagree with this. Remember, the biblical and dictionary definition of apostacy is totally different than the WTS's definition.
Just something to keep in mind -- when you're playing by their rules, you always lose.

That's not true. I didn't lose (my battle with the elders anyway).

Auld Soul, if it turns out to be a JC in disguise they will deliberate for a period of time. If it seems like it wasn't going in your favour, DA yourself if that's what you want to do. But remember, you have no obligation to meet with them. And if they've told you that it is not a JC, then they can't DF you in absentia either, because there never was a JC.

Kwin

sammielee24

When I was an elder and a JC was called, we had to let the person know the date, time and the purpose of the meeting and the charge of it so that you could come prepared to answer the charges. A JC is always 3 elders minimum. My educated guess is that it is indeed a JC so if your intent is to get DA'd and not DF'd then you best have your letter ready. If you don't go, then they'll say that you refused their offer to meet and make an announcement at some point. If you meet and repent they likely won't df you.The purpose of a JC is to bring you back and counsel you so it could be a private reproof (warning) - now if you act unrepentent - they will df you right then and there.

sammielee24

Listen to Happy Dad - that's the best advice.

sammielee24

I was told this was a meeting to just get to know me better.

Not. Sounds like a load of bull to me.

AuldSoul

Update: Firstly, thank you all for the advice.

To give a frame of reference, I love all these elders as people. Dearly. We're talking about people I care very much for who are among the most loving elders I have met in any congregation. They HATE to assert the bOrg's policies, they certainly don't leap to. They're also some of the most humble people I've ever met, and I am speaking specifically about all three who are invited to the meeting.

I probably should have included that in my first post. I haven't ignored a single post here, but I had to decide something taking into consideration all the particulars I know about.

Here's what I did:

HappyDad: Tell them you don't trust their motives and you will only agree to meet with two of them

You hit the nail on the head of my concern. I really wouldn't mind meeting with two of them. So I called the elder back and asked why there were three. He said, "Well, it didn't really matter to me how many there was. Is that a problem for you? I could reduce the number to two, but I think they oughta be at least two brothers there."

So, I let him know it felt a little nerve-wracking since he mentioned three elders, that it felt kind of Judicial Committee-ish. He asked me whether they ought to have a Judicial Committee, but in a joking way. I said I didn't know, that I felt kind of like Paul in Hebrews 4—not aware of anything against myself but not proved righteous because of that. Told him I hadn't sinned to my knowledge, but that someone else might disagree. He said he wasn't aware of any charges against me but that he couldn't swear no one had accused me of something.

I told him I would just want the courtesy of knowing ahead of time if there was any accusation, since I didn't know about anything against myself. We talked a bit about the need for people to apply Matthew 18:15-17 first, unless there was a situation where somebody felt threatened by me. He agreed and reassured me he wasn't aware of me being accused of anything. Said the main reason he wanted to talk with me was because they need brothers so badly and he noticed I don't have any numbers on my card for months and I'm not coming to any meetings.

Sidepoint: our congregation has no, count them with me...0, baptized brothers under the age of 45 except me, and I'm inactive. There is one other irregular unbaptized publisher who is a brother in his 20s. So they want me to become reactivated because they have no one to pass the mantle to. I should serve for promotion? HAH!

So I told him I'd be fine with meeting with them, but that I didn't want them taking it as a sign of disrespect if I chose not to answer a question, answered a question with a question, or even if I answer a lot of questions with "I don't know." I said that was what Jesus frequently did, and I didn't see anything disrespectful in him doing that.

He said he'd be out of line to fault me for doing anything the way Jesus did and that sounded fine to him.

So, I suppose I'll be meeting with them. And not answering if I don't want to. And using Scriptures as freely as I choose. And he said I can ask them anything I want to.

WOO-HOO! So, postponing the DA until after the meeting.

AuldSoul

atypical

I just caught this post and had to throw in my two cents. I have a friend who was told by the elders in my hall that they (three of them) wanted to meet with him just to try and encourage him. When he went to the meeting, it turned out to be a JC, and they accused him of fornication. He was df'd with the new type announcement right after that.

I personally would never agree to meet with three elders unless I just don't care what happens anymore. In which case, I still would not waste the time to let them play a power trip on me. If the brothers ask to meet with you, you have every right to ask them what it is about. If they will not give you a concrete reason why they need to see you, then my answer would be no.

It seems like you are handling this well, AuldSoul. Just don't get caught playing their game.

Wasanelder Once

I understand that you love and respect these men but, remember, fanatics are fanatics. My own beloved niece will seldom talk to me because of simple pyramid/U.N. coments made six months ago. We were quite close before that and there has been no judicial anything. She just holds to the party line. Its as if I were disfellowshipped. "I don't know you anymore" was her tearful outburst! If she can do that to me, men whom you love and respect can screw you over in favor of the God that they serve, the WTS. Watch.... your butt.

W.Once

SWALKER

I think that you have pretty much talked out the different scenarios and you have now are equipped with how to handle it no matter what they throw at you...keep us posted on how things develope.

Swalker (believer in 20 heads are better than 1)

evita

Auld Soul
Please be very careful. Your intuition is telling you that there is something fishy about this whole thing. The elders may not intentionally be setting a trap for you but that's where you may find yourself if you meet with them.
As I was fading, an elder ( dear friend of mine) called to ask if he could visit me with another brother. I asked him if he was visiting as a friend to encourage me or as an elder. His reply was evasive. I said no thanks. From there, I successfully faded. My elder "friend" never called again.
Good luck
Eva

AuldSoul

SWALKER: believer in 20 heads are better than 1

Right there with you. I think setting it up ahead of time, telling the one I called that I may appear evasive but I don't mean disrespect by it, will help a lot. I've also let him know that I am uneasy and already thinking, "Why three?" If I get unsure how the meeting is headed, I'll just politely excuse myself.

AuldSoul

Elders/ex-Elders, is lying to achieve a JC okay?

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