Can any believer answer this?

by LucidSky 116 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

pomegranate
Queenie45

well I prefer being a vegetarian but we do eat chicken / fish and turkey but chocolate is my fav. food. Is it scriptual and theocratic to eat chocolate in large amounts, what is the maximum per day allowance?
pomegranate

Are you fat?
Navigator

Undisfellowshipped
Why would you claim for Jesus what Jesus did not claim for himself? Jesus was not God, nor did he claim to be. He did claim to embody the qualities of God, but that is not the same as claiming to be God. When the "rich young ruler" addressed him as "Good Master", Jesus replied "Why callest thou me good?" "None is good save God".
The Sonship is much greater than Jesus. We are all part of that Sonship. Jesus would be more properly viewed as our elder brother, teacher, spiritual master.
Pomgranite
Your description of the rebellion in heaven and God's dealing with it is almost identical to some channeled material presented by Gloria and Kenneth Wapnick in their book, Awaken from the Dream, A presentation of A Course in Miracles. They use the term "dark beings" rather than Satan, but the ideas are similar including your statement that it was over in a split second of God's time, but seems to go on and on in our concept of time. I think you would find the book interesting. It is available from Foundation for a Course in Miracles, P.O. Box 783, Crompond, NY 10517.
Crazy151drinker

Sorry, Prom-
I can handle some of your creationist reasoning but "Because there was no LAW for what Satan was doing. Defying God was never done before Satan did it, what Satan had created by defiance was NEW TO EVEN GOD, as such as thing never came into God's mind. Defying God was bad, but there was no Law against it. " is nuts. The Bible explicitly states that God is the Omniprecent and All-Knowing, obviously he would know before hand. And would it really matter?? Hello, we are talking God here. What could an Angel do to God????
I fail to see why God would create all of these Animals with abilities soley dedicated to hunting other animals and eating them, just so they could be vegitarians. To reason that they are created in Satan's image is just plain idiotic. The Snake=Satan??? Come on!!! If anything, I would think that a T-Rex would be more Satanic. Why would God give Satan the satisfaction of making an animal in his image??? This is just plain silly prom.
If dinosaurs where created at the same time as all the other creatures, then why arnt the other creatures buried with the Dinosours??? Are you trying to say that Bengal tigers and Saber Tooth tigers were hanging out with the Dinosaurs in the Garden of Eden??? This is madness. Its one thing to believe in God and Christ and His teachings, and another to believe every sentence-word for word- from a book that is 4000 years with the majority of the old testiment based on Oral teachings passed down generation to generation.
gumby

Are you trying to say that Bengal tigers and Saber Tooth tigers were hanging out with the Dinosaurs in the Garden of Eden???
Why hell yes crazydrinker! Why do you think Adam and Eve went and hid? Legend has it they were naked and em-bare-assed. They hid from the damn dinosaurs! The saber tooth only ate quwi fruit untill Eve ate the damn apple....then he got a taste for sheep. Now.......go do your home work pal
pomegranate

Sorry, Prom-

No need to apologize.
I can handle some of your creationist reasoning but "Because there was no LAW for what Satan was doing. Defying God was never done before Satan did it, what Satan had created by defiance was NEW TO EVEN GOD, as such as thing never came into God's mind. Defying God was bad, but there was no Law against it." is nuts.
I'm not asking you to handle anything I believe, so don't feel so obligated to accept ANYTHING I write.
The Bible explicitly states that God is the Omniprecent and All-Knowing, obviously he would know before hand.
Good point. But have you reasoned that if God was omniscient BEFORE Satan rebelled, then it is God Himself that is responsible for Satan's evil? If God knew Satan was to be evil before Satan even was alive, then that means Satan being defiant was in God as an evil fore-thought/desire, and God brought that evil fore-thought into existence. And if God had evil fore-thoughts of Satan, and gave birth to those evil thoughts as SATAN, then that means God is evil and Satan is JUSTIFIABLY off the hook.
I personlly believe God was not omniscient before Satan rebelled, but created omniscience within Himself as an attribute to thwart evil.
Just as Satan created evil within himself, God created omniscience within Himself to oppose without rival, any evil that WILL come up against Him.
And would it really matter?? Hello, we are talking God here. What could an Angel do to God????
Hello, I have no idea what a rebellious POWERFUL angel COULD do to God. I will say this...for God to react so POWERFULLY and STRONGLY against this one particular being, he surely weilded something that the rebel thought was good enough against God.

Reason on this; if Satan knew God was omniscient before he rebelled, do you really think he would have rebelled? How could Satan rebel against One who knew his every whim and thought before he acted on it? I tell you what, if Satan really rebelled full well knowing that God was omniscient, I believe he is in line for the DUNCE of creation award and has the intellect of a snow pea.
I fail to see why God would create all of these Animals with abilities soley dedicated to hunting other animals and eating them, just so they could be vegitarians.
Maybe to simply show that God has the right and power to create something SEEMINGLY bad, and change that bad into good if that be his will. In contrast to the one Bad that he will never make good, and that's the one Bad that caused the Divine Reaction to begin in the first place.
To reason that they are created in Satan's image is just plain idiotic.
I have yet to see you give good reason why. Is it idiotic just because you say so?
The Snake=Satan??? Come on!!!
Metaphors are a real entity...
If anything, I would think that a T-Rex would be more Satanic.
That works for me. Snake. Serpent. Lion. Dragon. They all work for me.
Why would God give Satan the satisfaction of making an animal in his image???
Ahhh. I don't believe a snake is an honor or a satisfaction. It's an INSULT. I mean, look at every other thing God created on land...arms and legs. The "Snake" has an especially grotesque disdain for hands and feet. That's where he nailed his enemy, remember?
This is just plain silly prom.
To you it is silly, to me it is what I believe.
dinosaurs where created at the same time as all the other creatures, then why arnt the other creatures buried with the Dinosours???
Dinosaurs were NOT created at the same time as all other creatures. Go read the Bible will ya?
Are you trying to say that Bengal tigers and Saber Tooth tigers were hanging out with the Dinosaurs in the Garden of Eden???
Did I ever insinuate what was hanging out in the garden?? No, not once. Where are you getting this inaccurate portrayal of my beliefs?
This is madness. Its one thing to believe in God and Christ and His teachings, and another to believe every sentence-word for word- from a book that is 4000 years with the majority of the old testiment based on Oral teachings passed down generation to generation.
Matt 4:4
Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"
Prov 30:5
"Every word of God is flawless;"
Utopian Reformist

Here's an additional "spoke" to stick in the biblical "wheel" or just for thinking out loud:
If the original created paradisaic environment containing plant, animal, ocean and human life was perfect, then explain the logic behind the limitation in their lifespans (other than mankind's pending reward with the tree of life prospect).
If sin had not existed, would Adam have fed the animals and sea creatures from the tree of life so they could enjoy eternity too? If not, for what purpose would their deaths serve other than fertilizer? Obviously, they were not needed for sacrificing since sin had not occurred, thus precluding any arrangement for atonement.
How would the Creator help Adam cope with the eventual deaths of animals he may have befriended and raised as companions? What explanation would be given him, or does human perfection entail an absence of emotions other than joy? Interesting, huh? Why would the omniscient Creator develop life forms with term limitations in so many millions of species? If eternal life is the grand reward awaiting humans someday, will it include a full-range sampling of all species (plant, insect, mammal, reptile, amphibian, cellular, fish, even dinosaur) of life as we know it today?
Did the introduction of sin (disobedience?) and punishment cause enough imperfection to mutate the once perfect genes in all the main varieties and species of creatures to spring forth and evolve into the many unpleasant types we are not usually fond of today?
pomegranate

Good thoughts.
They all have answers...
I believe sin only affected man, as sin is the by product of intellect, of which the animals were created with none.
Here's one for ya...do you know why ANIMALS were accepted by God as a SACRIFICE for a man's sins?
Their lives were/are SINLESS. Yet they were created to die.
A sinless animal life sacrificed, could temporarily cover over the sins of a man.
A sinless human life sacrificed, could permanently cover over the sins of a man.
But the Law says, "Life for life."
On earth as a man, Jesus redeems Adam (Life for life)
In heaven as God, Jesus condemns Satan (Life for life)
Jesus Christ is the classic "killed two birds with one stone."
Zechariah

I wish to offer some personal insights on a couple issues.
The first is the nature of Gods omnipotence. The assumption is that God knows every thing you do at every moment. He knows for example in five minutes you will take a crap :). This is preposterous. God in awarding freewill to man is providing him liberty to act independently within limits. In this way man is a interactive player in Gods game of life.
God does not act personally in almost any matter. As you would imagine God oversees the greatest, largest organization in the universe. He is the worlds best delegator.
As a actor in the Grand Drama of life each man receives a script that is a guide for what he should do and say. He is free to deliver his performance in his own way in his own language with his own feelings. The important thing is that Gods will be done.
God knows in his game of life what each door opens to. He knows where every path leads. He knows the final outcome of one choosing certain doors and paths. Just as in literal stage productions there are understudies for roles there is such in real life.
If you for whatever reason do not choose to fulfill your role as a good guy he will find a villians role for you. Your good guy understudy will then take over. You will become a self made resister as the first resister Satan was. God is not making anyone rebel. We choose our course and whatever choice we make God uses it to accomplish his will.
Basically and simplistically Gods will is to train up a boy ( earthly child of God) in the way he should go so that when he comes of age (becomes perfect) he will not turn aside from it. Perfection means simply becoming completely equipped for every good work. Nothing more.
This lesson necessitates Gods allowing evil to exist and using negative life experiences including death to teach man important lessons for the sake of his everlasting future.
The second issue is the prophecies concerning lions and wolves living peacefully alongside the sheep and the lambs. JWs have self servingly implied that this is a description of a future earthly paradise that is being held out very literally.
It is clear that what was said was metaphors for false shepherds whose animal like natures will change. There is no reason to believe that this is in any way speaking literally.
We should not expect the natures of wild animals should ever change. Many were designed to eat others and no evil is attached to it. Only to men who choose to act like animals.
Zechariah

Can any believer answer this?

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