Can any believer answer this?

by LucidSky 116 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

pomegranate

Also, Iif we were supposed to be "perfect" & the fall was'nt supposed to happen, we would never get sick & die, why do we have immune systems? White blood cells, etc

We were perfect and still are perfect in regards to the purpose for which God made us. Mankind: A species created to fall and pass that inherited defective trait on to the next generation, binding man into sin, and stopping further NEW Satanic corruption. Defective mankind was the "perfect" delivery system (though crippled) for the PERFECT TOOL, Jesus Christ, to put an end to the Devil's work.
With God, out of the loins of something defiled and defective (which was God's will for it to happen) , comes something pure, clean undefiled and perfect. And Satan finds he can't defile it, SO HE KILLS IT, by the dingy children of his defilement, the Jews.

"IT" the TOOL, was Jesus, who WAS God in heaven before becoming a man. The one from the OT, whom Father handed over EVERYTHING since the advent of Satanic corruption. The Son has been in TOTAL charge from the beginning.

So Satan has NOW (since Jesus death) crossed over the line that makes HIM culpable for death himself. One who truly WAS God in heaven (before becoming a man), was murdered by one without authorization assumed Godship in heaven. A false God murdered by way of his defiled creation, crippled mankind, killed JESUS CHRIST.
Jesus Christ, the
That Law went straight INTO HEAVEN WITH CHRIST, and that LAW is now strung around Satan's neck as a noose. Satan is NOW bound by LAW, JUST AS WE, WHO WERE THE VICTIMS of defilement by Satan, have been BOUND by Law for millenia, then RELEASED by Christ, with the LAW becoming ALIVE in heaven with fingers around Satan's neck. LIFE FOR LIFE, as HE who FALSELY ASSUMED being God, has become GUILTY of murdering ONE WHO TRULY WAS GOD IN HEAVEN.
One who has NEVER been bound by Law, was outsmarted by the One who makes Law binding on ALL creation, by way of the ultimate sacrifice, Father giving up Son for death. Just so Satan could commit the crime that would make it JUSTIFIABLE for God to EXTERMINATE the evil BUG.
Father giving up Son for death. NOW THAT'S the ULTIMATE not fair.
Edited by - pomegranate on 28 October 2002 14:53:11
pomegranate

why do we have immune systems?

So that the eventual defiled and corrupted being could live long enough for the Savior to come at the apointed time.
Without that DEFENSIVE design, offensive defilement would over take a species and KILL IT. That's what Satan wants. EVERYTHING DEAD.
We are designed to live just long enough for God's will and purpose to be full realized. He knows everything.
Edited by - pomegranate on 28 October 2002 14:55:1
StinkyPantz

Pom-
Your theory has not only earned my respect, but also my interest. But I have some more questions if you don't mind.
1. Didn't Satan win? I mean according to your interpretation, only people that believe in the Bible and see Jesus as the Messiah (and have no doubts), etc. will be saved correct? Well, most people living and that have ever lived were not Christians or believed in the Bible (or have doubts), so Satan has the majority; I would think that he proved his point, that more will follow him and not the Creator. Or do you still take the JW viewpoint that says that humans have proven that they cannot rule themselves, so that means Satan was wrong?
-I could possibly accept that Satan lost if it means that all good people, even the ones that doubt or have other religions are counted as God's people and not Satan's. One thing that always bothered me about JWs was that they said that no matter how good a person is (no fornication, giving to the needy, etc) they wouldn't be saved unless they were Christian.
2. Since God made humans to challenge Satan, did he already know we were going to fail?
Ginosko

Hi Pom,
It's difficult to me to see Jah given animals for eat to Noah in a methaforic way, if eating meat was intrinsec a moral sin, anyway ...
But do you really believes that Jesus was vegetarian ? If so, why did he make a miracle to gave fish for eat to the people ? As I understand the Bible classified fish as animals, having souls, as I remember one Indians friend told me the they classifies fishes as vegetables of the sea, but that's not the case with the Bible, as I understand.
Also Jesus parents, Mary and Joshep as jews can eat animals. Do you think that as boy Jesus didn't eat animals. As I understand in one of their festivals the jews sacrifice animals and they eat them.
But also if we think of John the Baptist, he ate locust, a locust is and insect not a vegetable. The Bible don't talk about if insects are soul's or not, but as they are nor vegetables as I understand they are souls and a nervous systems, so maybe they have sensorial senses.
But I still believe in God. Maybe is not the conduct of the animals who are wrong, but our understanding of the creation, and the purpouse of God in the creation.
Ginosko

I refer to John the Baptist, because he had and import role announcing the Messiah.
pomegranate

1. Didn't Satan win? I mean according to your interpretation, only people that believe in the Bible and see Jesus as the Messiah (and have no doubts), etc. will be saved correct? Well, most people living and that have ever lived were not Christians or believed in the Bible (or have doubts), so Satan has the majority; I would think that he proved his point, that more will follow him and not the Creator. Or do you still take the JW viewpoint that says that humans have proven that they cannot rule themselves, so that means Satan was wrong?

The way it's in my head, Satan lost the split second God found him out. God knew that, Satan didn't. The rest of the time, was God going through the motions of the plan which was set in place faster than the speed of light, unbeknownst to Satan. Some of that plan was a very harsh rebuking of sorts, as God STEPPED through creation, a "day" at a time, showing Satan what a true God could really do, in contrast to his wimpy, "WE ARE GODS, WE DO WHAT WE WANT" defiant creation. Each day was punctuated with an ending of light...because at the start of each day was Satan barking like a mad dog, "ALL YOU FREEKIN DO IS CREATE BAD STUFF."
"First there was evening" (Satan spewing BAD about God and claiming GOOD about himself and the demons) "then there was morning" (God showiing off his creative GENIUS again, eliminating the DARK (Satan's lie, I am God too) with PROOF of who really was a TRUE GOD. So it went, each and every creative "day."
Surely God could have just ZAPPED everything into place as it was with one fell swoop, without the LABOR of producing the varieties of LIFE we see now and even more so in the fossil record. LIFE in it's INFINITE variety was in itself a slap in the face of the false god by the true God...God says it's Good. Satan says it's Bad. God says I CREATE LIVING THINGS. Satan says FU God.
I could possibly accept that Satan lost if it means that all good people, even the ones that doubt or have other religions are counted as God's people and not Satan's.
Who is counted as God's GOOD people has nothing to do with the one who may be counted as such. Each person has no say in their salvation, it is God who dictates who shall live and who shall die by the standard that He has determined as being Just and Right.
You must realize what GOOD the above does to a man (or woman). You are RELEASED from anything that enslaves you under the cloak of religion. There is NOTHING you or I can do by our own power to warrant God choosing us, no matter WHAT a man made religion may require of you. God chooses according to his own good will and pleasure, and that cannot be denied.
One thing that always bothered me about JWs was that they said that no matter how good a person is (no fornication, giving to the needy, etc) they wouldn't be saved unless they were Christian.
JW's are not "Christians" as they deny Christ as being God like Father. But...
Stinky, at what point in time does that BELIEVING have to occur? Say, a person doesn't believe in the past or presently right up to the end, but the moment Christ returns at the end of the age, CHRIST MAKES THAT ONE BELIEVE THEN AND THERE just like he made the Apostle Paul believe in the FLASH OF A LIGHT. Wait on God.
It has happened that way. It does happen that way. And it will happen that way again.
2. Since God made humans to challenge Satan, did he already know we were going to fail?
Remove any JW scales you may have left on your eyes from the past. Throw off all preconceived notions about God and read this VERY CLEAR and precise all encompassing passage, then you tell me, OK?
Heb 4:13
13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Do you think the fall of Adam and Eve was hidden from God's sight in light of the above? Remember after Adam and Eve sinned they felt a marked nakedness? They then understood the real deal as written above in Heb 4:13, along with the shame of being disobedient.
pomegranate

It's difficult to me to see Jah given animals for eat to Noah in a methaforic way, if eating meat was intrinsec a moral sin, anyway ...

Isn't Sin defined by what God says it is and what it isn't? There is nothing I know of in the Book that says meat eating was a sin. I would imagine that someone raised to adulthood on a vegetarian diet would have a very difficult time taking that first big bite of meat...
But do you really believes that Jesus was vegetarian ?
No I do not. He was as much as Jew as the ones around him, and they ate meat. Lamb for passover...Jesus would have partaken because that was LAW. He did what the LAW said.
UnDisfellowshipped

Wow, Pomegranate, I really like your Posts on this Thread, I think they make a lot of logical sense.
Navigator said:
Have you considered that it wasn't God who created this earth? That might explain why it is far from perfect. In John 1, it states that it was the Son who created all things. If it was the Son in a separated state that might explain the absense of perfection. When Jesus was being tempted in the wilderness by Satan, Satan offered him all the Kingdoms of the earth. Jesus didn't challenge Satan's right to make the offer. He seemed to understand that it was Satan's territory.
I'm not sure what you are saying.
God is the One who created all things.
God (the Father, the Son, and the Spirit) created everything.
Jesus Christ is, and always has been, and always will be 100% God and 100% Perfect.
Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 29 October 2002 2:5:48
SusanHere

Well, it WAS a nice thread.
::::SIGH:::::
pomegranate

Just so it be known, I do not subscribe to a trinitarian belief. Nor do I subscribe to monotheism.
I believe in ditheism, meaning there are TWO beings who are both God in nature, THEY are the Holy Spirit.
Two beings of God (Father and Son), ONE God nature (Both). ~I and the Father are one.~

~in image and likeness~
Two beings of man (male and female), ONE Man nature (Both) ~The two become one flesh~

Can any believer answer this?

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