october, 1988. .
well.....there i was in escondido, north san diego county, california, with suitcases and youngest son in hand......we moved in with my older jdub sister and her youngest daughter.
(not a pretty picture.
Frannie,
WOW...Thank you for posting this story...it is compelling.
Let me just say one thing before dashing off to work...Brothery love? HA!! Those brothers wouldn't know love if it bit them on their butt! Wonder what would happen if they were ever in need of help?
Looking forward to the next installement.
Andie
it's been over 12 yrs since my df'ing.
yes, i forced 'em to do it for what i know now were pointless reasons....but mainly, at the time, i thought it was because the heirarchy of the wts doesn't measure up to scriptural standards....i wasn't wrong for they are very judgmental hate-mongers, manipulative and overbearing....but i've come to learn so much more..... .
after years of traumatic disillusionment, i've begun to wonder if there really is a god/goddess, etc....or is this a state of mind/belief system that mankind has created to explain the inexplicable, answer the unanswerable, to put a spiritual bandaid on the tortured in mind, body and/or spirit.....and yet, tho our bodies wear out eventually, we are wonderfully "made"....and so many things here on earth are sympatico with our human existence and temperament.....yet....at the same time, we have adverse reactions to many things, too, whether vegetable, animal, mineral or even spiritual.....is this all only a contrivance of our imaginings, the result of our teachings among ourselves?.
What you seek will not be found out there in ideas and discussions. Because what you desire is much closer and much more intimate than that.
What you seek will not be found out there in ideas and discussions but rather in the bathroom mirror. Because what you desire is much closer and much more intimate; as we are all, individually, a reflection of God.
Frannie, I understand that what you are looking for is a blueprint of sorts for a belief system, for proof that a higher diety is at work here. I honestly don't believe that you will ever find such a thing. What I believe in is that we are all able to be god like in the sense that we can all be good, giving, honest human beings. It is an EXTREMLY simplistic view but one that I believe covers all of the bases (ie 10 commandments). We need to be able to look at ourselves in the mirror and say that above all else, we did an ok job out there today.
As many have said before me, this is only my 2 cents.
Andie
hey all.
i know that i don't post much here as there is nothing more than a compassionate ear for me to offer to all of you who have been thru so much at the hands of the borg.
throughout my time here though, i have sought to understand what drives people to believe what they do.
Hey all.
I know that I don't post much here as there is nothing more than a compassionate ear for me to offer to all of you who have been thru so much at the hands of the borg. Throughout my time here though, I have sought to understand what drives people to believe what they do. I have my own set of beliefs as do each and every one of you. I stumbled across this just a couple of minutes ago. To me, it makes sense. It seemingly is all so simple. I would love to know your views and thoughts on this.
Andie
Of the No...really? What the hell am I doing here?? class
edited to add: Thanks Frannie for bringing this up!!
greetings to all my canadian friends on this forum.
first of all, i just want to say that i have never ever met a canadian i did not like.
that sort of freaks me out and makes me question and analyze my psyche a bit, lol.. i had a dinner guest tonight, tony, and while he is a very nice guy, he is a bit strange.
Interesting topic...one that I can relate to. I am a Canadian living here in the States. Now I'm fortunate that we have pretty decent health insurance coverage but let me tell you, it certainly IS different than in Canada. I am in the interesting position to see how both ways of doing "business" work. Take for example last year when I dislocated my shoulder. My husband drove me to the emergency room here in California and I was seen almost immediately. He filled out all of the necessary paper work while I was being xray'd and a couple of hours later, we were on our way home. Imagine my surprise when about a month later, we recieved a bill in the mail for $750.00!! Apparently the cost of the "Milk of Amnesia" that the Dr gave me to put me out for a few minutes to reset my shoulder wasn't covered, nor was the total cost of the xray. That was a big surprise. By the same token, I have a family doctor who is simply amazing...whenever I need to go see him, he is patient (no pun intended) and is very thourough. He's so good that I don't mind paying the $10 co-pay.
That being said, let me be one of the first to jump on the pro-Canadian Health Care band wagon. Although I believe that we all take it for granted to a certain extent, we have access to amazing doctors and nurses. Because they are not in it primarily for the paycheck, you know that you will get some of the best care around. The major draw back about having universal health care IS the waiting. My husband's uncle had a major heart attack several years ago and needed by-pass surgery. The list was so long, he had to wait 8 months before they could finally get him in. In the meantime, he had a massive stroke that eventually led to his death. My sister's former boyfriend had a potentially fatal thickening of his esophogus that would have been easily fixed by some minor surgery. He had to wait four months to have it. I hate to say it but had these occurences happened here in the States AND they had the money for health insurance, the wait would have been weeks rather than months.
Both systems have their advantages and both systems need some fine tuning but I think all told, we are fortunate to live in countries where we do have the level of healthcare that we can benifit from.
Andie
the reason a dog has so many friends is that he wags his tail instead of .
his tongue.. -anonymous don't accept your dog's admiration as conclusive evidence that you are .
wonderful.. -ann landers if there are no dogs in heaven, then when i die i want to go where they .
Loved this post!! Made me miss my puppies all the more!
hey all.. i've been quite absent from posting for the past long time.
i don't know what has made me think that this is the time to post this letter to my friend, but here it is.
if she reads it, she knows how to reach me...my email address has remained unchanged for all of this time.
Hey all.
I've been quite absent from posting for the past long time. I don't know what has made me think that this is the time to post this letter to my friend, but here it is. If she reads it, she knows how to reach me...my email address has remained unchanged for all of this time. If she doesn't, then, well, I've gotten it out of my system...for now anyways.
This one's for you Mia! Hi sweetheart. Ok...I admit it...I can't get you out of my head these days and it's driving me nuts!! So I just keep writing letters that I'll never send and hope like crazy that I'll get it out of my system. I'm worried about you. I'm worried that you're getting buried under a pile of doctrine that cuts you off from those "other" people who love you. When I imagine you now, all I can see is that "mask" that I've seen on your face when you're around other witnesses. I don't want that kind of life for you X. The X that I remember was so free and happy. Ok, albeit a bit too free but a lesson was learned from that! What I'm talking about is freedom to love who you chose to love, not having some magazine or other human tell you who you could associate with. That is just not kosher. I do not see how a loving God could support such a destructive way of thinking, no rather, of being. You know that I love God and His teachings; that they are the right way to live one's life (and yes, I know that I've not always done that but I'm learning from my mistakes to become a better person). One of His fundamental teachings is to love thy brother (or sister as the case may be) as you would be loved yourself. When man teaches man to "make as dead" someone who does not share the same belief as him, well that's just downright nasty and dare I say it...bordering on evil. The thought that comes to mind is Hitler telling his people to kill the Jews because they were not worthy of life because they weren't German. Truly ick!!! I would think that God would want you to love that person even more if for nothing else than to show how loving and giving that religion is, kwim? To have families torn apart, friendships put asunder all because of what a man has taught them...well that's just not right X. You are living in a cult my dear and it scares the living shit out of me. Who YOU are deep down inside is being destroyed by fear and manipulation. I'm not saying that it's your family that's doing that but rather the whole JW community. Yes what you did years ago was wrong...no doubt about it, but to have a group of elders tell you that you will no longer be as them to keep you in the group is just plain manipulation. Should the story have come out then, it should have been up to each and every individual who knows you to come up with their own idea on how to proceed. Yes you might have lost some friends over your behaviour but you also would have had tons of support from others. NO ONE on this earth is in the position to impose judgement on you for what has been done...not until they become you and walk a mile in your shoes. No elder on the face of this earth can tell you who to talk to and who not to talk to...that is YOUR choice and your choice alone. X, if we all lived by the teachings of the WatchTower, we would not have anyone to talk to! Just think about it for a second...one year they teach that such and such a way of thinking is OK and you can talk to anyone who also believes such a thing and then the next year, they say "oh you know what? We recieved New Light on this subject and found that we were wrong. So you guys can't talk about this anymore or else you'll suffer the consequences." Before long, there would be nothing left to talk about for fear of losing all of one's friends and family. What kind of love is that?? It's not. It is pure propoganda honey, put forth by a bunch of control freaks. I know you love your religion and trust me, I know that there is a lot of good in it. But I want you to think, I mean REALLY REALLY think about some fundamental issues here. Do they really teach love? Do they really teach global community? Do they teach acceptance of all people? No they don't. They teach that you can love only if "you think and believe the same as me"; they teach that unless you believe what they do, you don't belong to the group; they teach shunning of those who do not espouse all of the same doctrines as they do...even if that person is your own daughter. That is NOT Godly love honey. Again, it's more like Hitler-ish than anything else (imho).Sweetheart, I love you. I always will, you know that. But I find it extremely difficult to accept your way of life. It is closed minded and bigotrous (hehehe...I just made that word up!) and actually (again, imho) based on hate. One of the teachings is "beware of false prophets"...honey, you are surrounded by them. They have prophesized Armegeddon so many times only to have it not come true. That fact alone should be enough to open your eyes! The men who run this organization are just that...men. Men who are human and fallible just like you and I. They are not capable of making up rules of conduct because they themselves are not perfect. Do you get what I 'm saying here? You do not have to listen to them X! Live a good life and have a good heart and you will be welcomed into the Kingdom of Heaven for all eternity! Be remorseful over the bad things that you've done and learn from them and vow never to do such things again. You know God can see into your heart and he knows that you are such a good person with so much to offer the world. He knows that you're sorry and that you try every day to be better. He knows you X and He would never ever turn you away from the Eternal Paradise...not ever! You will not be granted access to Paradise because you did not talk to me for the rest of your days, or did not talk to Julie or whoever. Because you shun does not grant you entry into the Everafter X. He wants you to enjoy the gift of life to its fullest and to show love to all that you know, not just a selected few. It's like a parent having a favorite child and neglecting the others. That's not right is it? No it's not. By all means, continue to love Jehovah and to believe in the teachings of God! But please, please please...do it away from the group. Do not let their small mindedly based fear dictate to you what is right and what is wrong. You know in your heart what is and what isn't...let that be your voice of God. And yes, God also knows that my heart is very selfish for saying all of this to you. I want and need my friend back and I think that one of the main things keeping us apart is this religion. And yes, I desperately want to break that connection that you have with it. I don't want to take away your belief system, just the power and control that they have over your everyday choices. I want for you to be able to associate with whomever YOU choose because YOU choose to, not because it's sanctioned by some elder. Do you know what I mean? And if you say to me even once that you do associate with whom you choose, I'll scream! If that's the case then why aren't you in contact with Julie? She's a very good friend and quite frankly does not deserve the cold shoulder. K, well not the cold shoulder exactly, cuz from what i understand, you are very nice to her when you run into her. But what I mean is that she does not deserve to be cut off from your daily life. Alternate points of view are what make us grow. They can also solidify our choices but you have to be able to hear them! You have to be able to have contact with those other view points in order to make those choices. Just because you listen to something or maybe even begin to believe it, does not make you a bad person unworthy of Heaven. X, bottom line is I love you and I'm worried about you. And...I desperately want my friend back, for this time that we have on this earth is just far too short. Why (and if you can give me one good reason, I'll buy into it) should we be cut off from those that we love? Why should we be denied that gift? I'm not saying pick me over them; I'm saying pick open over closed. I love you and you will always be my friend no matter what...you will always have a place in my heart and in my home. Absolutely nobody or nothing could ever take that away!!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT????? Nothing or nobody... Always, me PS: And just in case you're wondering, should you choose to stay within the flock, I will not judge you. That's not my place to do. You will be the same wonderful, loving and funny person that I have always had the pleasure of knowing. That will not change. I will be sad though because I can see so much more for you. PSS:Does Prov 4:18 really justify an organization replacing doctrines and failed prophecies with new doctrines and prophecies, or does it simply contrast the benefit to the "righteous" of obeying a wise father (Prov 4:10-19)? False teachings can be called "false words" and Prov 13:5 says, "A false word is what the righteous hates..." When the WTS changes a teaching to something that is totally different, is it like a light that is getting brighter and brighter or more like having one false light (word) completely turned off and a totally different light turned on? Do you think the WTS would be critical of any other organization that changed its teachings as many times on as many different issues over the last 100 years as the WTS has?
have you ever wondered whether we are too easy to believe what people say they are?
it seems that sometimes we get posters that masquerade as down and out, searching, or very sincere----when, in fact, they are none of these things.
i know we want to believe that people are not dishonest or callous----but----i wonder if we should be more aware than ever before that there are persons that will always try to play on our trust.
Gullible? Yup...Prawley! But that's until I get a "feeling" bout someone, then everything they say had better be proven. But there's something that I'm curious about Minimus...what makes you ask that? Has something happened to make you question your own gullibility? Just curious is all.
Andie
PS: Merry Christmas everyone!
did anyone catch this one hour discussion the other night on prime time tv?
(channel 7, here.).
i only got to see the last half hour, and i sure hope they show it again soon.
Ok...I know that it's really late in the thread and all but this one topic is a real button pusher for me. Having been brought up Catholic, there was much there that did not make sense to me and I've spent a lifetime searching for answers. This book just made sense to me, if ya'll know what I mean. Don't have a clue as to whether or not the theories are true or not, I just know that I most certainly do believe in them. Another interesting thread of the book (and not covered in the TV show) was the origination of "religion". Before man decided to organize it all, worship was basically a femine thing...and by that I mean that goddesses were all around. Female symbology was everywhere and people were quite happy with this arrangement. Along comes Jesus and his diciples. Still all is well in the world...both systems seems to be working together. Then comes this dude who's on a power trip (King Constantine I believe) and decides that women are not to be trusted and are to be reviled as "weak" and "second-class". According to one theory, this is when history was re-written and women were made out to be of no consequence unless of course it was in a negative light. Ergo, Mary becomes a prostitute. Her gospel is thrown out (or re-written as John's) as are all other gospels refering to her in a positive light. The theory goes on to say how the remaining gospels are reworked to minimize Mary's significance in Jesus's life. Subsequently, the "holy grail", as we've come to know it, is to be the lost gospels as well as the lineage of Mary and Jesus.
Again, I don't know if any of this is true or not, all I know is that, for me at least, it all makes sense. What I would give for the time and the money to be able to go back to school and to truly study this area. I find it soooo very incredibly fascinating.
Anyways, just my 2 cents.
Andie
divorce lawyers make thousands of dollars every year handling the breakups of over 50% of all the marriages in this country.
children end up being pulled in both ways during drawn-out legal custody battles.
aside from money issues, another big reason people file for divorce is infidelity.
Marriage is for the birds, well, not all just certain kinds.
Like cookoo birds, perhaps??
Andie
please welcome a young new user to the board.
this is a young person and i just spied a message from from him/her on another thread.
i'm going to cut and paste the thread they wrote below.
Welcome Chim Chim!!! Hope to see you around a while!
Stacy...you are such a tease!!! C'mon now...fess up, who is it?? Also, if you want, pm me if you want to talk. Perhaps my wisdom and age could be of benifit to you. *Ahem...cough cough* Oh who in the hell am I kidding...I just make a really good ear!!
