Posts by peacefulpete

7

Yahweh OF Samaria

by peacefulpete in

most everyone has heard of the 8th/9th century bc kuntillet ‘ajrud inscriptions that mention yahweh and his ashera, that is that yahweh was understood as having a female consort.

interesting as that is, often overlooked in the inscriptions are the names of the god yahweh himself.

the writings are themselves apparently practice work by scribes learning the trade and cover many topics.

By "most everyone" I meant those who felt free to do independent research. Revisioning of history is an ancient game. The winner writes the history. As far as the OT, it went through a process that reflected the sensitivities and agenda of the priesthoods in control of the documents. As the shift from henotheism to monotheism occurred in fits and starts over hundreds of years the editorial process was similarly piecemeal and somewhat clumsy. Rather than remove entire stories and pericopes it was often preferred to simply recast the story in a negative light or as a warning tale. The OT is filled with references to the people worshipping the goddess and other deities, even in the temple. (2Kings 23:4,The king ordered Hilkiah the high priest, the priests next in rank and the doorkeepers to remove from the temple of the LORD all the articles made for Baal and Asherah and all the starry hosts. He burned them outside Jerusalem in the fields of the Kidron Valley and took the ashes to Bethel.)

These preserve actual practice and match the numerous goddess figurines found in ancient Israel/Judah. The scribes who later worked the text and even some of the authors themselves recast this traditional cult as aberrant or backward. To the elite Yahwist mind this was the unsophisticated naivety of the common people, but in fact it was the norm and despite their efforts to editorialize, the priest preserved this historical reality.

7

Yahweh OF Samaria

by peacefulpete in

most everyone has heard of the 8th/9th century bc kuntillet ‘ajrud inscriptions that mention yahweh and his ashera, that is that yahweh was understood as having a female consort.

interesting as that is, often overlooked in the inscriptions are the names of the god yahweh himself.

the writings are themselves apparently practice work by scribes learning the trade and cover many topics.

peacefulpete

Most everyone has heard of the 8th/9th century BC Kuntillet ‘Ajrud inscriptions that mention Yahweh and his Ashera, that is that Yahweh was understood as having a female consort. Interesting as that is, often overlooked in the inscriptions are the names of the god Yahweh himself. The writings are themselves apparently practice work by scribes learning the trade and cover many topics. But of interest now are the blessings given in the name of "Yahweh of Samaria" and "Yahweh of Teman", or simply 'Yahweh Samaria' and 'Yahweh Teman'. What this suggests is that Yahweh was regarded as a regionalized deity much like Baal who was often referred to by regional names like Baal of Gad, Ba‘al Hermon, Ba‘al Hazor, Ba‘al Peor etc.

This was the norm in the world of religion. In a time when travel and communications were difficult, demanding adherents travel days or weeks to visit a temple to their deity was a lot to ask. Surely the gods would be pleased with a second, or multiple, temples to facilitate worship. With time, localized variations of cult practice or story would result.

A fine article by Nadav Na’aman of Tel Aviv University entitled In Search of the Temples of YHWH of Samaria and YHWH of Teman has linked these two expressions with other extrabibical usage and as well as references in Kings, Amos and Hosea to temples in the north at Bethel of Samaria and Beer-sheba of of Teman in the south. There Yahweh was still worshiped using the more ancient symbolism of a bull in those locations.

My interest in this topic of a regionalization of Yahweh came up when discussing the recent further centralization of the WT church organization. Anyone who has traveled learns that the JWs while generally united in loyalty to the WT headquarters display a surprisingly diversity in enforcement of rules and strictness of conformity. I wonder if one of the motivations for shifting to recorded media and lessening the teaching role of the local church leadership is to tighten ranks and control.

4

What’s your favorite smoothie?

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

any takers?.

peacefulpete

Used to have one for a snack each night. I was watching calories so usually blueberries and ice and stevia sugar substitute.

19

Will Christ Be Ashamed To Claim P.IM.O.'s?

by IWant2Leave in

i started my fade about two years ago and at present i have no intention of writing a disassociation letter.

the pros and cons of being p.i.m.o.

have been discussed on this forum many times.

peacefulpete

Many (millions) people are no longer active JWs but carry baggage from their experience. I know some who fearfully refuse to renounce the GB, some who fear death in an impending doomsday, some who don't do holidays thinking "at least I don't do that". Its not surprising given the depth of the programming and methods of control used by the group. I used to say of such folks that they left for the wrong reasons. Some were kicked out for nonconformity, others left because of emotional abuse etc. They problem is, the programming must be addressed to be able to move on and start a new life. There are posters here for many years who still cling to aspects of the doctrine and identity. They may even see themselves as true JWs. My heart breaks for them. Always not good enough or always unable to embrace the larger world. Always outsiders.

16

1914 Questions

by sweetyj in

im not sure if this has already been asked here but i have some questions about 1914. if jesus arrived "invisibly" in the year 1914 why do the anointed partake of the emblems?

why didn't they stop in 1914?.

if jesus is ruling in heaven then why are the anointed still on earth?

peacefulpete

They actually taught that Jesus arrived in 1874 and would become manifest in 1914 (40 years later). When that failed they danced around for a few years struggling to offer a few reasons for delay then revised their numbers saying they had actually said he would arrive in 1914. The 1874 actually was a spring off of the Millerites prediction of 1844. They added (30 years, Jesus time on earth). Its a tangled mess of pyramids and imaginary parallels. In the end when coincidently ww1 started kinda close to their 1914 date it cemented the prediction as fixed. They have been stuck with it since.

Your question about why they continue to do the sacraments is a valid one and reflects the arbitrary way they have timed expressions like "arrived" and "comes". Careful reading of old WT material showed me and my wife how often they casually shifted the timing of certain passages, I believe without awareness of doing it. I made the mistake of commenting that an statement i the WT was "new light" as they had applied a passage to a new time. I was told assertively it was not new or we would have been told it was new. I showed them the previous application and they told me to be quiet and not divisive. Its for good reason they no longer encourage having an extensive library.

In the end I imagine they need the sacraments to serve as a distinction between hierarchy and lay class.

26

OMG Gretta von funberg is trying to sing

by mickbobcat in

this stupid little autistic twit is a no talent hack.

she can not dance, sing or even talk well.

the liberal idiots follow this little idiot like she is the oracle of delphi.

peacefulpete

Its so embarrassing to see adults act so childish.

43

Help me figure out what to say...I'm not usually at a loss for words

by Terry in

jw
friends

well, i finally found him on facebook!.

his name is tollie padgett.

he was my congregation overseer (before the "elder" changeover) when i was in prison in seagoville in the late 60's.. i've been searching for him for years and years.

peacefulpete

Found a missionary couple we served with after only 25 years. Tried to find something to talk about but eventually his apostate radar kicked in and he shut me out.

Digging up bones.......exhuming things better left alone.

5

Interesting Scripture!

by Iamallcool in

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/jeremiah/20/#v24020007 .

.i have never noticed this scripture!

verse 7. i have never read the whole bible!

peacefulpete

It is an interesting turn of phrase, "You fooled/deceived me" . It reflects the more primitive sentiment that humans are tools/ pawns in the Yahweh's hands. While how much of the book reflects the work of the one man is hotly debated, the message of Jeremiah at least here is one of capitulation to Babylon. Make what you will of the mental state of the prophets, he was sure Babylon was going to clobber them and felt the best course was to bow down.

His message was understandably unpopular and viewed as traitorous.

The priest had him put in stocks and he was ridiculed for his lack of faith and courage.

As a prophet during Josiah's attempts to reform the religion of Judah he was of the Yahwist camp that no doubt delighted in his insistence upon exclusive Yahweh worship.

He saw the Egyptians then kill Josiah and then depose Josiah's son Jehoahaz from the throne and appoint Jehoiakim king. Then he saw Egypt's rival Babylon take over and siege Jerusalem and Jehoiakim change allegiance from Egypt to Babylon. Then "Babylonian,[a] Aramean, Moabite and Ammonite" raiders come and kill Jehoiakim, possibly for some revolt(??)

The Babylon subsequently appointed Jehoiachin/Jeconiah as king at either 8 or 18 years old.

3 months later Babylon sent armies to collect the royals to take them to Babylon for assimilation and education.

Jeremiah suggested they give up but the King insisted upon resistance.

Jeremiah saw a lot of confusing turns of events and likely felt a bit "fooled" much of the time.

8

Installation of Yahweh alone

by Doug Mason in

i have released my latest study for your criticism, corrections, and advice.. “installation of yahweh alone”.

yahweh’s journey from local warrior god assigned to weather and storms to his installation as the universal deity -- and the people who put him there.. available at: https://www.academia.edu/s/e1d2a5b016?source=link .

doug .

peacefulpete

Your review is a labor of love. No doubt it helps organize the thoughts by actually writing them out. If I might suggest a couple areas of refinement. The process of syncretizing the imported Yahweh deity with the indigenous gods El and Baal, was a painful and long process. Gradually the iconography and theophanic language was shifted to Yahweh by those with the power to do it. It seems largely a political strategy of leaders such as Josiah to unite a small empire with a state religion. Religious purists likely chaffed at expressions like "Bull Yahweh" and the occasions wherein worship of Yahweh involved the use of bulls. But political power and time win over. Incredibly the OT contains both religious positions tenuously side by side; condemnation of Yahwism with Baal and El iconography, and overt acceptance of this transition.

Regarding Yahweh's origin from the south, the Kennite hypothesis convincingly put the pieces together many years ago. Conclusive, no but the OT assertions to that effect are pretty hard to explain if not accurate. At least it was widely believed that Yahweh was a Edom/Medianite deity that "adopted" Israel as his people.

I'll also suggest pursuing research regarding the "10 tribes of Isreal". Modern scholarship might use the term as a nod to earlier work in reference to the Northern coalition/nation of Israel but in doing so are not literally suggesting 10 of an original 12 are historical tribes. The "tribe" names are often simply geographical or etiological creations not sons of of a patriarchal Jacob. The number 12 has cultic symbolism.

17

"My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"

by Diogenesister in

can anyone remember the reasoning the watchtower gave for jesus speaking these words?

if you have a reference that would be even better!.

peacefulpete

First, The quote is itself a very loose Greek LXX translation of the Hebrew, Ps 22:2, "My God, I call by day, and Thou answerest not, And by night, and there is no silence to me.". So any claim to fulfillment of prophesy is already quite strained.

Second, the passage appears early in NT manuscript variants as "Why have you reviled me?" Which begs the question, why? Why would a Christian scribe alter the text? The scribe's motive might possibly explain its original intent. Early Gnostic Christians quoted this verse and understood it as support for the doctrine that the man Jesus was a vessel for a Divine entity that left as Jesus was dying. The popular Gospel of Peter words the quote as: "My power, O power, you have left me."

So Orthodox scribes simply sidestepped the theological debate by altering the text to "why...reviled me?" Is it possible the original writer of Mark had intended something like what the Gnostic Christians understood? We may never know.

It is interesting that the revision of Mark known as Matthew included this passage verbatim but the later revision called Luke dropped it. Perhaps by then the controversy was already brewing.