Posts by greven

21

Class-Questions for JW's

by Emma in

a woman i work with is going to a class at her church on how to talk to jw's.

i told her one question to ask when they come knocking is if jesus is their mediator since most dubs don't know he isn't according to their own teachings.. any other simple questions one might ask?.

greven

Simple, non threatening questions are the best way of reaching a JW because it shows you are interested but puzzled.

Here's one re: Blood.

Let's assume that it is true that the Bible forbids the use of blood in transfusions. Why is it permitted then to use certain fractions/solutions/derivates made from blood? The Bible doesn't split blood up in it's components, so are these then not human made rules?

You could use Adam and Eve as an example: they were forbidden to eat the fruit. Now would they not have been punished if they decided to eat just a tiny bit (a fraction), or if they cooked the sirup out and ate that?

Those are simple but thought provoking questions. Any householder could come up with these questions so they do not raise red apostate flags...

Greven

17

How much truth is there within the Watchtower Society?

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

how much truth within the organization?

often times, having spent so many years as being one of jehovah's.

witnesses, the question crosses my mind, "how much truth was.

greven

Hey Wanderer,

Let me first say that the question you raise is an interesting but non-focussed one.

Let me illustrate:

Often times, having spent so many years as being one of Jehovah's
Witnesses, the question crosses my mind, "How much truth was
there within the organization"?

This question can only be a meaningful one if it is clear what is meant by 'truth'.

The Watchtower was correct regarding the history of the popular
holidays such as Christmas, Halloween, and Valentine's Day.
However, it leads us to the next question, what else were
they correct about?

Well, any encyclopedia could have revealed you the origion of the popular holidays. I can imagine then, that the watchtower contains truckloads full of such 'truths'. The claim that the earth revolves around the sun is another one for instance. What you seem to mean by 'truth' is factual information. This is not a meaningful definition. They can't go without at least some factual information. I think the interpretation of that information is more to the point. I agree, for instance, that the holidays have pagan origins, what this means or should mean for our current behaviour is where I and the WT part ways (or at least in some WT's in others they advocate the contrary position but that's beside the point).

Respectfully,

Greven

5

Philip Pullman's "His Dark Materials"

by Fe2O3Girl in

my friend gave me the "his dark materials" trilogy to read during my maternity leave.

i thoroughly enjoyed them, was completely hooked, and some bits made me cry (which may have been attributable to my late pregnancy emotional hormonal state).. the finale of the amber spyglass gives a really interesting slant on theology as we know it.

some christians hate these books........... .

greven

I read the both the trilogy and the Da Vinci code as well.

I enjoyed them all. The darkmaterials is an interesting page turner with an funny theology, but I found that at the end things didn't match up quite as good as I hoped for. For instance the explanation for the existence of the Specters seems wildly unconvincing. Also there is this superknife called godslayer or something that can cut through dimensions/alternate worlds. But in the end they kill Metatron bare handed, besides the gods and angels are such fragile beings so why a special blade to kill them?

The seduction role of that female scientist was disappointing too. Still I enjoyed the books... just very unsatisfied by how the story wrapped-up.

Greven

11

Finding out what a convention costs....

by schne_belly in

here is an email i sent to the nearest "convention center" that jw's are using this summer....

dear sirs,.

i hope you are able to assist me in my research.

greven

Last convention I went to had the Mac D's open. Which was unusual I may add.

Though we were instructed not to eat there or outside the convention hall, the Mac D's was fully packed

Greven

35

Biting my tongue at last nights bookstudy

by GBSJG in

so i went to last nights bookstudy which discusses 6 paragraphs of the daniel book so there was lots of room for comment.

the study itself already was pretty frustrating it was taken from chapter 17 paragraphs 24-29 and it goes on about how the fds has to be lead by jehovah because of all the prophecies of daniel that fits them (1335 days was this convention to that etc etc).

but the paragraphs also mention the failed prediction for 1925. here are some interresting quotes from the book: .

greven

Hey GBSJG,

Want to have some fun?

Then take your calculater, some note paper and a pen. Now, al these dates and days (this convention date to that is 1335 days etc) do not match when you calculate. Everytime it is off the mark. Present your notes next bookstudy in the form of a question like: Hey bros, can someone help me, I tried to calculate those days but every time the number of days between the dates given differ from the number of days given in this paragraph. I did once, had a lot of people wonder why they are off some many days. when nobody had the answers it was quickly dropped... Greven

8

What would you do....

by *Heather* in

jw
friends

...if jehovah witnesses took over the world??

?

greven

I'd scramble to collect any knowledge (books etc) the WBTS would soon outlaw: philosophy, science, ethics etc. So that, when their system will collapse and people will start rebuilding society as we know it, there will be a Library of Alexandria still standing.

On a serious note: I think the first thing they'll do is get together for a nice old fashioned bookburning. What do others think will happen first? Public stonings?

Greven

41

Here We GO - Can't Fade No More

by unique1 in

ok, a little update on my story.

i told him yes.

i told him, i just couldn't do it.

greven

My thoughts:

We wanted to respond to the last comment you made on the phone: “I wish you could have unconditional love for me.” We looked up unconditional love and only found it mentioned three times in the Watchtower publications.

LOL they 'looked it up'. Kind of telling too, just three times.

This is a statement from the Awake: “AMONG the greatest gifts parents can give to their children are unconditional love and a set of values that the parents live by and do not just lecture about. Without proper values, life is little more than a crude struggle for survival. Values give meaning to life. They establish priorities. They set moral boundaries and define rules of behavior.”

We do love you unconditionally so does Jehovah, but as stated above, unconditional love is not without priorities, rules, boundaries and values."

I disagree with some folk here that think the WT here in question defines 'unconditional love' as 'love with bounderies'. That is not to be taken from the quote. Let me redo the quote to show you:

AMONG the greatest gifts parents can give to their children are (1) unconditional love and (2) a set of values that the parents live by and do not just lecture about. Without proper values, life is little more than a crude struggle for survival. Values give meaning to life. They establish priorities. They set moral boundaries and define rules of behavior.”

The second part about boundaries and rules refers back to the set of values displayed by the parent, not the unconditional love part.

In reality however, any love they practise IS conditional, be that friendship, marriage, paternal and other relations of kinship. It's all based on whether or not you agree with current doctrine. When you disagree or even just doubt you are quickly tossed aside.

I would, personally, tell your parents they misunderstood the passage from the WT, maybe add the dictionary definition of 'unconditional' (really the word already says it all does it?), before taking any rash steps. DA/DF gets you in even more trouble and might not be worth it.

I feel for you. Good luck and strength to you!

Greven

11

The Atheist's Book of Bible Stories - new - It Brings Bad Things to Life

by RunningMan in

it brings bad things to life

in the future, religious groups will get mad at me, thus boosting my book sales.

scott adams, the dilbert future., p 111.

greven

I really enjoyed so far each and every chapter, including this one.

However:

Many of the wars on our planet were solely and exclusively religious wars. The Crusades are a perfect example.

I think this claim and esp. the latter part of it shows poor research. The Crusades were absolutlely not 'solely and exclusively' religious in nature. True, religion played a major role in it, but you cannot deny or ignore the fact that those military campaigns had their roots in political circumstances in Europe. Religon was used as an important and easy tool to accomplish rahter political goals. Religion was the tool to gain control over and support of the masses (both moral and monetary), which was needed to fund such extraordinary endeavours.

Claiming the Crusades were purely religious wars distorts and simplifies a very complex (and not to mention bloody) part of history.

The fact that organised religion has an inherent tendency to work to control the thinking and acting of it's adherants is one of it's core evils. This is what makes it such an attractive ally or tool for political powers. Once you control the ruling religion you control the majority of the people. Do people eagerly die for money? to expand borders? Few are willing to do that. Do they die for 'god'? Without a second thought. Now, when you control 'gods' will, you have an instant army of fanatical warriors at your disposal willing and even eager to die.

Greven

5

What did they do with them?

by Woodsman in

(numbers 31:17-18) 17 and now kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has had intercourse with man by lying with a male.

18 and preserve alive for yourselves all the little ones among the women who have not known the act of lying with a male.

the more i read between the lines the more disturbing it all gets.

greven

Ez, only the female virgins were 'innocent'?

Greven

6

double your pleasure

by peacefulpete in

6now esau saw that isaac had blessed jacob and sent him away to paddan-aram to take to himself a wife from there, and that when he blessed him he charged him, saying, "you shall not take a wife from the daughters of canaan," 7and that jacob had obeyed his father and his mother and had gone to paddan-aram.

" 13but his mother said to him, "your curse be on me, my son; only obey my voice, and go, get them for me.

15then rebekah took the best garments of esau her elder son, which were with her in the house, and put them on jacob her younger son.

greven

Nicely written!

It is very clear both the manner and setting of the blessing and subsequent wife gathering differ significantly.

A small note though: you mention verses but not the books from which these accounts were taken...

Greven