Biting my tongue at last nights bookstudy

GBSJG

So I went to last nights bookstudy which discusses 6 paragraphs of the Daniel book so there was lots of room for comment.
The study itself already was pretty frustrating it was taken from Chapter 17 Paragraphs 24-29 and it goes on about how the FDS has to be lead by Jehovah because of all the prophecies of Daniel that fits them (1335 days was this convention to that etc etc). But the paragraphs also mention the failed prediction for 1925. Here are some interresting quotes from the book:
"At that time, there was a widely held view that pointed to 1925 as the year for the resurrection to begin and for Paradise to be restored to the earth. Thus, many were serving with a fixed date in mind."
"After 1925 passed, the holy ones no longer served God with an immediate, explicit deadline in view."
- So after the date passed they understand that they where wrong "With all these prophetic marks to identify “the holy ones of the Supreme One,” what excuse can there be for failure to recognize them and associate with them?"
But what really was frustating was the comments the dubs made during the bookstudy:
"Some people used there calculator and some vague formula's to come to the 1925 date."
- Ok and how about how we come to 1914 is that not vague and using formula's?
"You must not follow people but Jehovah."
- Wait a minute the GB is supposed to be lead by Jehovah so you must follow them but if they make a mistake then it's not Jehovah that made the mistake but then the GB are just people and you must not follow them?
"You must look at what the bible says, 1925 is not in there."
- The 1925 date was explained at the time using the bible and some calculations, just as 1914 is explained at this time so how is that different then?
"There are a lot of different religions who share some doctrines with us like the adventists. But we are the only ones that are preaching so that is a sign that Jehovah is with us and not with the other organisations, they tried preaching but they failed."
- And what about the mormons, they are activly preaching in our area?
"Some people where calculating from the generation from 1914 when it was about to end, but you shouldn't do that. After the doctrine change i've heard some people complaining that the end was so far away. Some people are now make a career in the world because they think it's far away, but it's not, we should just trust Jehovah and be faithfull like the JW did in 1920 etc."
- But those people where also told that the end was near and it still hasn't come they could have easily made a career in the world. How is this time different then?
There was actually one brother who did know of beth-sarim and mentioned that that period was pretty strange because they where building houses for when the princes would return etc etc, but a few paragraphs later all the failed predictions and other stupid things must be forgotten and only the other things must be remembered so that you can say that all these things identify that Jehovah is with his organisation and that they truly are the FDS. Can you be that blind?
Last night really got me thinking how do the dubs justify all the errors that where made and still believe that the org is led by Jehovah. It's very interresting to see how they justify that. It seems like they blame it on people whenever the annointed are wrong and whenever they are right it is a sign that they are led by Jehovah. That is also the way the the WT brings it when there is a change of doctrine they always blame the R&F for calculating.
I gave one comment during the study that was when the conductor asked after telling about the generation change what else has changed during that time? So I could mention the seperation of the sheeps and the goats, what I really wanted to say is that the current understanding is actually the same as the first one so how is the light getting brighter then if we return to previous beliefs?
It was very difficult for me to not comment and ask critical questions or to tell the real truth. Has anyone of you ever give a comment and told the real truth?

jwfacts

Thanks for typing all that out GBSJG, though it frustrates the hell out of me reading the stupid JW comments.

To think I used to make the same brain dead comments only a few years ago. I eventually began to hate the book study, because whereas the Watchtower tries to be politically correct in their phrasing these days the followers will say it straight as it is meant. I stopped going to the bookstudy a couple of years before the meetings for that reason.

GBSJG

It's true the comments that the dubs make are worse then what is in print.

On another meeting an elder gave a answer and he talked about why Jehovah allowed for the dubs to come up with so many wrong dates. He believed Jehovah did that just to increase the preaching work, because with a date in mind there organisation really grow during that period.

He forgets that after such a period a lot of people leave the organisation just for the reason that the prophecy failed. And if what he is saying is true then that means the Jehovahs is willingly misleading his organistation to increase it's numbers. And in the time that has gone by the world population has increased with far more than the dubs have.

This weekend the WT study will discuss an article that will go over all the new light and new doctrines that has changed the org. I can bet that there will be much of these terrible comments made at the meeting.

LDH

Has anyone of you ever give a comment and told the real truth?

Thanks for the reminder of the bookstudy. LOL.

I did hear when I was about 16 that an Elder, right in the middle of his talk, said, "I'm sorry, I can't do this anymore. I just don't believe it's true." and walked off.

That might be urban legend, but man what a fantasy.

greven

Hey GBSJG,

Want to have some fun?

Then take your calculater, some note paper and a pen. Now, al these dates and days (this convention date to that is 1335 days etc) do not match when you calculate. Everytime it is off the mark. Present your notes next bookstudy in the form of a question like: Hey bros, can someone help me, I tried to calculate those days but every time the number of days between the dates given differ from the number of days given in this paragraph. I did once, had a lot of people wonder why they are off some many days. when nobody had the answers it was quickly dropped... Greven

GBSJG

geven disregard my PM to you as I did not see your complete post at that time.

I did noticed and also have read about it on this board that indeed the dates don't even correctly match up. When I talk about this with other JWs they generally say that they are not sure about all the calculation and dates that the WTS uses and that it's not important for there faith.

James Free

it's true, from the Daniel book Witnesses don't have the exact dates between the conventions to calculate the days in Daniel because the Org. deliberately omits them. Why, since an exact, to the day fulfillment, would be impressive? It is simple; the dates of the mentioned conventions do not fit exactly - Jehovah got the number of days wrong!!

Or, could it be possible - the Org. is still faking the fulfillments? Would God's true organization need to lie? No

Of course, showing this to a 'dedicated' Witness will have no effect - they will say something typically ingrained like 'we must wait on Jehovah to clarify matters through his apointed channel' etc.

But for those who have the intelligence to realize it - they are being conned by the GB!

luna2

Has anyone of you ever give a comment and told the real truth?

When I was still going to meetings I still believed this junk. I didn't know the real truth so I couldn't give them a real zinger of an answer. I can only imagine how tempting it is for those of you who know better to let them have it.

Sometimes I did have actual questions (not the ones printed out for us), but I was too much of a coward to ask them. Isn't that sad? Here you are, supposedly "studying" this stuff and you are afraid to speak up and ask for clarification or to admit that you don't understand. Instead, you sit there, confused and feeling dumb, hoping that Jehoober will wave his magic wand over your head and it will all become clear.

GBSJG

When I was 13 or something I can remember that on a sunday WT study there was a stranger in the hall and he put up his hand at a paragraph and got the mic and instead of giving an answer he asked a question. I can't remember what he actually asked but the reply he got was that they would explain it to him personally after the study. I'm still wondering if it was a apostate kind of question that he had asked.

I guess if you want to DA/DF it is very tempting to before you actually get DA/DF to do a no 4 talk or something explain about the UN thing and the 607/586, child abuse etc. I mean in the 5 minutes you can talk about a lot. And encourage the people to do some research for themselve to see if what you are telling them is wrong or the real truth.

What would happen if you do that? Would you be carried of stage during your talk by the elders? Or will everyone immediatly shun you and never mind doing the research. I think perhaps you would make some people curious and maybe plant a little seed of doubt.

ellderwho

It was very difficult for me to not comment and ask critical questions or to tell the real truth.

This is a problem for the cult member. Critical thinking. Do you feel like your the only one who notices this at the book study? Keep up the thinking.

EW

Biting my tongue at last nights bookstudy

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