Posts by flipper

100

Is it Time to Declare that The Great Tribulation Has Started ?

by OnTheWayOut in

i don't really engage in doctrinal discussions about jw's anymore.

they seem to say some pretty crazy stuff.

but i have read some threads discussing doctrinal changes and how watchtower is really out of ideas and money at the same time.

flipper

BLACK SWAN- I agree with you. I've been out of this JW organization for 13 years now- and the older part of my extended family i.e., older siblings and my older dad - are just as much fanatic in this JW cult as they always were- yet even more so in a desperate type of way. Like they REALLY want Armageddon to happen soon- or they'll die of old age - like the normal human race does.

The inhumane treatment I see my older dad and brother giving my mom is very similar to the way I see the GB laying off Bethel workers, sending them out to pasture, shutting kingdom halls down selling them and taking the money- consolidating all the WT finances in a way to prepare for something big going down, either tons of child abuse lawsuits, or having to liquidate eventually due to risky financial investments and stopping all construction worldwide of all kingdom halls.

It IS a scary scenario going on within the JW organization right now. And I agree with you- I don't put ANYTHING past what the WT leaders would try to do to our families that are still inside. I could easily see some kind of manipulation like a Jim Jones scene where they order everybody to do something stupid to show their alleged " loyalty " to WT leaders and the organization. One reason I hope my 29 year old daughter gets out of it soon. And for my grandson's sake

20

JWs aren't stupid

by cognisonance in

the title is a bit of click bait.

but here's the alternative title: what stupid beliefs/ideas did you have while an active jw.. i think the majority of jws that don't have obvious mental health issues are not stupid, just un/under-educated.

for example, i now accept evolution as a thing, not a controversy or conjecture.

flipper

Good point Sir 82 in your quote - " but they have this tendency to " turn off " that one little section of the brain that houses " critical thinking " . " Which is called dissociative disorder - a psychological condition and disorder once again caused by cult mind control indoctrinated into JW's neurotransmitters in their brains by the WT Society and it's leaders. Which blocks critical thinking ability

20

JWs aren't stupid

by cognisonance in

the title is a bit of click bait.

but here's the alternative title: what stupid beliefs/ideas did you have while an active jw.. i think the majority of jws that don't have obvious mental health issues are not stupid, just un/under-educated.

for example, i now accept evolution as a thing, not a controversy or conjecture.

flipper

JW's aren't stupid- just mind controlled. There's a huge difference

37

How Long Does This Religion Have Left?

by pale.emperor in

the generation that will be no means pass away have passed away.. the 144,000 were sealed up in 1935, oh, no wait, we got that wrong, we still have some.. russel is the faithful and wise servant... oh, no he wasn't it was me, rutherford... no, actually, we got that wrong it's knorr... erm, no we mean the governing body.. shunning is pagan, true christians would never do that (1946)... oh, actually, we should do that too.. the revelation book has been re-written.. the un is the satan's visible organisation.. wtbs signs up for fellowship with the un in 1991.. exposed in the guardian newspaper so ends it's fellowship in 2001.. the greatest man book is now obsolete and replaced with another jesus book.. the mags are reduced in pages.. encouraged to use tablets instead of actual books to save paper (money).

halls being sold off.. congregations sharing halls.. society owned buildings being sold off.. video pertitioning for money only last year to fund a new building.. bethelites reduced.. missionaries sent back home.. young members leaving.. long time members discovering the history and leaving.. how long do you think this religion has left?

i cant see it being here in another 100 years.

flipper

Very good comments here- of which I mostly agree with. From the JW's being victims of the Stockholm Syndrome whereby they identify with their captors - WT leaders and the GB. I feel like most here that the exiting rate of JW's leaving HAS increased at a faster pace than it used to be- but as long as WT leaders keep bringing in millions $$$$ to keep the good ship WT Titanic floating - it will be a gradual slow death.

The only thing in my opinion that would REALLY speed up or hasten the process of the WT Society going way for good or being dissolved would be massive, mainstream media criminal indictments against the GB or WT financial leaders behind the scenes for extortion, fraud, Ponzi schemes, GB or upper level WT reps indicted for criminal child abuse or the federal government indicting them on charges of murder and criminal negligence due to the no blood transfusion policies resulting in thousands of JW deaths through the years. If one or more of these things take place- it may indeed quicken the pace of the WT Society being FULLY exposed and JW members would leave in droves.

That being said- you'd still have some mentally ill- mind controlled drones under mind control and under the Stockholm Syndrome influence who would still claim, " This is just " persecution " of Jah's appointed servants like happened in J.F. Rutherford's day when WT leaders were thrown into prison " unjustly " ! " They'd ramble on about it being " honorable " to be " persecuted " for the " sake of the good news " . You know- stupid stuff like that. However- If it all came crashing down with criminal indictments- I believe you'd see a bigger exodus from the JW organization at a much faster pace. The organization might even then - still exist but it would be seriously gutted in numbers.

Otherwise I think we are looking at a long, slower demise for the long haul. I believe we need criminal indictments for the pace to quicken. Kind of my take on it`

100

Is it Time to Declare that The Great Tribulation Has Started ?

by OnTheWayOut in

i don't really engage in doctrinal discussions about jw's anymore.

they seem to say some pretty crazy stuff.

but i have read some threads discussing doctrinal changes and how watchtower is really out of ideas and money at the same time.

flipper

OTWO- Interesting thread. Hope you're having a good weekend. I feel the leaders of the WT Society are SO manipulative that anything is possible for them to use- if they feel it will lead to more control over rank & file JW's - more control over their lives and money.

If and when the time comes when governments start REALLY putting the heat on WT leaders , i.e. - bringing possible criminal prosecutions against the WT Society for allowing child abuse, or even higher ups being brought up on charges of child abuse, or brought up on charges of extortion of JW's finances through illegal or deceptive fraud - and if such charges hit mainstream media - THEN at that point- I could see WT leaders claiming they are being " persecuted " in fulfillment of " Bible prophecy " just like Jesus was - and they'd most probably print this in their WT publications that the persecution they are experiencing is a start of the great tribulation so as to calm down any suspicions JW's may have about criminal rumors against WT leaders in the media.

So, yes- I could see WT leaders misapplying " Bible prophecies " in order to save their own butts AND to keep the " flock " from getting antsy and scared. WT leaders will go to any lies or expense to keep control of the rank & file. They've misapplied scriptures throughout their 137 year history- they'd do it in a heartbeat if going to prison and saving face to JW members is on the line. Most definitely. Everything is a con game to them anyway . Kind of my take on it

P.S. I don't think they would play the " great tribulation " card unless things get really dicy though. Like the government or authorities actually prosecuting them- then the timing would be right for them to use this decoy.

42

Feeling Sad After Uncovering TTATT

by pale.emperor in

my initial pangs of unease and doubt led me to research some things.

well, a lot of things really.

i've never felt comfortable using the bible to try to calculate dates (1914).

flipper

PALE EMPEROR- As many have said here- you are experiencing normal emotions and going through the normal grieving process as many do when leaving this high control organization. It's NOT our fault that the WT Society lied to us and millions of other people. WE are NOT unethical for leaving the Witnesses - WT leaders ARE unethical for lying to us and for covering up child abuse in the organization and letting thousands of people die within their organization due to insisting they follow orders of " no blood transfusions " to save lives. WE don't have blood on our hands - WT Society leaders DO.

That being said it's a really good idea that you downloaded a copy of the latest elders manual. Many people here have done that as well in order to be informed of the twisted and ever changing " rules " that the WT leaders insist the elders play by. It's a good thing to stay informed and one step ahead of them.

You are doing well. Hang in there and just show human love and compassion to your wife - she's under the influence of mind control so she's not as awake as you are to the subversive undercurrent within the WT Society- YET. Don't get in any debates or arguments with her as it just might put up a brick wall even more. There are some great books on how to deal with our cult mind controlled relatives written by Steve Hassan that I highly recommend you read if at all possible. His website is : www.freedomofmind.com. Titles of his books are : Combatting Cult Mind Control. 2. Releasing the Bonds- Empowering People to Think for Themselves. and 3. Freedom of Mind- Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults and beliefs. These books were an incredible help to me after exiting the Witnesses in understanding the tactics that high control organization leaders use to manipulate members inside the organizations. If you get a chance to read them- please do. It will help you understand what happened to you- and it will assist you to understand how your wife is still being manipulated. And how you can carefully assist her in possibly waking up !

I wish you the best man. Just realize and know that we are all here for you buddy. Lots of us have been through this and are here to offer our support. Lots of good people here on this board. Feel free to PM me if you ever need to talk. I offer my friendship to you as others have. Hang in there- Peace out, Mr. Flipper

18

Muhammad Ali has died few minutes ago.

by Iamallcool in

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/03/us/muhammad-ali/index.html?adkey=bn .

flipper

What a loss indeed. This man stood up to the United States government in the 1960's when it took real balls to do so. Stripped of his heavyweight title for being a conscientious objector for refusing to fight in the Vietnam war which he disagreed with he fought all the way to the Supreme court and had his conviction overturned and came back to be one of the- if not the greatest boxer ever.

This guy was a class act- a showman from the beginning who knew how to work a crowd. His rope-a-dope tactics in the ring causing other boxers to wear themselves out trying to hit him ; and then at the right time he'd nail them with that vicious left hook - game and bout over.

The world has lost a true gentleman who fought for justice and equality. Condolences to his family. Sincerely, mr. Flipper

1

UK proposed mandatory child abuse reporting

by Lostandfound in

from the guardian newspaper today in uk not sure how any change will affect jws.

teachers and doctors will face criminal sanctions if they fail to report concerns that children are being abused, under controversial proposals to be discussed in a government consultation.. the clamour for changes to the uk’s child protection law has been growing since the jimmy savile scandal, which exposed how the dj abused hundreds of young victims at institutions across the country.

it emerged that, despite the fact that many people had concerns about savile’s behaviour, very few raised them with the authorities.. in response, the government will shortly announce a 12-week consultation on the mandatory reporting of abuse – in what is being described by supporters as the biggest and most important debate around child protection measures for decades.. advertisementhide.

flipper

LOST AND FOUND- Thanks for posting this. Now we will see whether they hold religions to that same level of responsibility in making mandatory reporting or religious leaders will face criminal prosecution. The problem we face here in the U.S. is there is a general lax attitude in prosecuting religious leaders when it comes to hiding these crimes. Religion gets away with far too much shit rolling downhill- and religions never seem to roll downhill with any damage concerning child abuse. Not unless the leaders themselves are the molesters- THEN the media will get up in arms about it- i.e. Warren Jeffs ( Mormons ), hundreds of Catholic priests ( Catholics ) . No wonder WT leaders want to hide the database JW pedophile list- one or more of their leaders is most probably on that list THEN WT Society would be REALLY screwed if one of the GB started getting prosecuted. The media would be on that like flies on you know what.

It's good that they are taking this seriously in England , I hope the authorities start doing the same here in the U.S. Thanks for posting this

38

Please sum up the last decade in JW history

by oldskool in

jw
friends

i used to be a member of this site, but jumped off a good number of years ago (08?).

i don't have access to my old email, so i'm using a new account.. anyway, i was baptized jw in late 90's.

da'd mid 2000s.. when i left there were three meets a week plus field service.

flipper

" Please Sum Up the Last Decade in JW History "

2006- Lies & Deception

2007- Lies & Deception

2008- Lies & Deception

2009- Lies & Deception

2010- Lies & deception

2011- Lies & Deception

2012- Lies & Deception

2013- Lies & Deception

2014- Lies & Deception

2015- Lies & Deception

That about covers it

28

I'm getting disfellowshipped

by raven in

hi everyone, a bit of an update here on my continuing disaster of a situation.. (refer to my previous posts for the full story) my mom met with me yesterday for dinner, it was nice.. however, she brought up the fact that because i live with my boyfriend and how everything has gone down, i will be disfellowshipped.. i think the elders basically have enough proof of this.. due to the anonymous tipper (still have no clue who it was, i live in another town 100's of miles away from my old congregation territory), and my mom telling them.

i'm not sure when they will announce it, or if they will contact me prior.. at this point i feel so emotionally dead i don't care- on the other hand, i don't want to be disfellowshipped because i do not want to loose a relationship with my mom.

that is the whole reason i tried fading out.. .

flipper

Lots of great comments here by very caring people. I feel for your situation Raven. I was DFed for 4 years in the late 1990's and have been inactive and out since 2003- quit attending. I'm still treated by some of my fanatic JW family like I'm DFed- although my older mom has never shunned me. Grreat Teacher's comments about " emotional blackmail " I relate to very well- my older siblings and older elder dad have used that on me for years. It doesn't work. I won't be coerced into a fake relationship just to please them.

If your mom cannot accept you for who you are- it may be time to re-analyze the relationship. Real love doesn't put demands or judgments on people and use religious beliefs as a whipping post. Something I've learned in dealing with some of my still in JW family over the years. We are here as a support to you and offer our friendship to you. As some have said on this thread- you will gain better friendships who are more accepting to you as time goes on. Hang in there