Posts by OnTheWayOut

37

Grocery Store conversation with an elder

by problemaddict 2 in

i'm inactive here to the local jw's as i have faded.

i've been slandered and all that, shunned by some but not all, but the elders basically leave me alone.

i still run into to people all over though.

Need help understanding the Overlapping Generation teaching

by Jules Saturn in

so this is a topic that seriously boggles my mind and please correct me if i'm wrong.

to me, the jw definition of the overlapping generation teaching is that the lives of the anointed from 1914 overlap with the lives of the anointed right now.

david splane used the example of fred franz and how he finished his "earthly course" in 1992 but while he did, he had a lot of "contemporaries" that outlived him and are currently living today.

You don't need help understanding the overlap generation. Your opening post shows you understand it as well as any JW. Your thoughts about the single generation seeing all those things by 70 AD is the JW understanding.

My research helped me to see this also:
(from https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/177960/40-years-generation-past-1874-thats-all)

Here's the real simple version of the complicated doctrine of when Jesus supposedly returned and the last days arrived/ended/started.
William Miller said that Jesus' Return would be in 1844. (See The Great Disappointment at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Disappointment ) People who believed what he said were known as "Millerites." It (Jesus' return) didn't happen. This return of Jesus was also known as his second advent, and believers came to be known as Adventists.
Adventist Jonas Wendell suffered in his faith at the Great Disappointment, but later carried the same type of "Millerites" talk in a sermon where Wendell had picked the new date of 1873 or 1874 for Jesus' 2nd return (after studying Bible chronology and being wrong about 1868). 18 year old C. T. Russell heard Wendell in 1870 speak of such a date. Wendell had already published The Present Truth, or Meat in Due Season highlighting such dates. So Wendell invented those terms that would haunt the WT organization and morph into New Light and food at the proper time.
Wendell died in August of 1873, probably confident that his 1873 to 1874 date was correct. When Jesus didn't appear as expected, Russell still believed it (or at least wanted to keep selling pamplets that explained it). He taught that Jesus must have returned invisibly, meaning that Jesus was ruling from Heaven starting in 1874. He taught that 40 years later, a literal application of how long a "generation" was, in 1914, Jesus would take power on the earth. That would mean an end to the Gentile Times in 1914 and an end to the last days- destruction and death and stuff.
Because World War One (coincidentally) started in 1914, Russell used that as a sign that he was correct in his complicated doctrines. He was already good at reinventing understanding rather than admitting he was wrong.
All the rest is just calculated backwards- the stuff about 607 BCE and the 2520 years and the Seven Times.
All of it was just made to fit that understanding. When things didn't work out as planned (again) the people in charge just reinvented the understandings and adjusted the math to fit whatever they wanted it to fit to sell more pamphlets/magazines/books. The end of the last days became the beginning of the last days. 1874 was forgotten. They just kept changing the end-date. They even made terrible errors and just changed the math to fit- they forgot there was no "Year Zero" and changed 606 BCE to 607 BCE.
They kept 1914 because it was so well-known to the followers and they already said "See, we were right" when World War One started. Everything about Nebuchadnezzar and the destruction/building of the temple was just made to fit the math. You can find anything if you work backwards. It's like writing a Sherlock Holmes story. Just work backwards from what a great detective would expect to find and make him look like a genius in discovering those things.
It is so unnecessary to understand the ridiculous theories of WT's present understanding when you can see what it was based on and how it changed to suit their need to get a following and sell pamphlets/magazines/books. It saddens me that I bothered to understand it at one time.

13

GB Member Guy Pierce Memorial Card

by pale.emperor in

http://library.jw-wayback.org/jw-wb/photos-pictures/people/guy%20pierce%20(1934-2014).pdf.

interesting to read his backstory.

a little sad that they refer to his first marriage as "guy married a woman with 2 children".

OnTheWayOut

"In his years of raising a family, Guy experienced a divorce, raised his adopted children, his own children, and his step children."

The thing reads like "divorce" is a benefit because he understands what people go through. A perfect spiritual leader for the nuclear family.

5

Wt members

by pimojw in

i have seen various threads about who is really in charge (som suggest layers and accountants) and threads re the wt society directors.

what about the wt voting members?

has this been discussed?.

OnTheWayOut

I don't know how the voting members have influence or control or could take it.
I do know that there are so many different avenues that could cause a coup.

But Rutherford did that and didn't make things better.

What the heck difference does it make to the rank and file who is really running the show? All the members know is that the end of the world is coming any second now and to obey until the end.

It's a dangerous mind-control cult. It doesn't need fixing. We need people to get out of it.

13

Local JW mom among the victims of the Vegas shooter

by TTWSYF in

rhonda lerocque attended the kingdom hall of wilmington, ma.

my brother and his family were part of that cong back in the day, although i don't know if they knew.. a mother, wife, sister, daughter, etc, etc.. please pray for her and all of those involved..

OnTheWayOut

I doubt I will run into any JW's spouting how such a tragedy shows the need for God's Kingdom, but if I do......

.....I will say, "God would have killed all of them and billions more if his kingdom arrived."

86

JW Rumor: End of the Traveling Overseer

by Edison Trent in

a friend of mine has contacts to a family with several circuit overseers and special pioneers.

they have good connections to bethel.. he told me that the latest rumor from bethel states that the cos should be abolished in their present form.

they have also recently begun to take cos back to bethel.. over the same channel i have already heard of the car fleet program and that the dos should be abolished.. has anyone else already heard of it?

OnTheWayOut

...oh, and a detailed personally tailored report from WTS simply has to include totals and "They need to give more."

86

JW Rumor: End of the Traveling Overseer

by Edison Trent in

a friend of mine has contacts to a family with several circuit overseers and special pioneers.

they have good connections to bethel.. he told me that the latest rumor from bethel states that the cos should be abolished in their present form.

they have also recently begun to take cos back to bethel.. over the same channel i have already heard of the car fleet program and that the dos should be abolished.. has anyone else already heard of it?

OnTheWayOut

When I left over a decade ago, the C.O. spent a great deal of time during a visit on the quality of the recruiting work. That was when "selling" literature was still their main thing. He examined the books and compared the incoming literature to the placements and to the donations to worldwide work.

I am sure a super elder working for free can easily examine the books...and Watchtower already knows what a cong gets and what they give, so a report created in 10 minutes from HQ can be provided. They won't need to care about the recruiting efforts. Watchtower can make service overseers feel more important by saying they won't get much oversight.

All the guy has to do is read the report and audit the books.

And yes, the C.O. has been important to keep elders in line. Mother will encourage all to just fly straight because they cannot afford that oversight anymore. And I am sure there will still be an overseer (R.O.) to run assemblies and for elder snitches to snitch to.

32

Watchtower Study Today from August 2017 issue " Wait Patiently"

by BluesBrother in

theme scripture , james 5 v 8 abbreviated to " you too, exercise patience".

(i guess we know what to expect now) .

" how long?

OnTheWayOut

To paraphrase: "Don't leave Watchtower because the end hasn't come. Just keep waiting. "

To be more accurate: "Don't leave, we need your money."

23

BREAKING NEWS out of Canada

by Newly Enlightened in

jwvictims.org has another breaking news article out of canada: https://jwvictims.org/2017/10/02/breaking-news-66-million-class-action-suit-request-filed-against-jws-in-canada/.

OnTheWayOut

While the amount may seem light, this is a class action suit filed against an organization that did not commit the abuse, but fostered the hostile environment toward accusors and contributed toward the problem.

More money for a single victim would require separate filings and a heavier burden of proof that Watchtower was more instrumental in causing the particular abuse. This burden has been the situation in the cases we have heard about previosly.

I feel for the victims. Many have been victimized again by Watchtower after the abuse, and the vast majority would never have a day in court or any attempt at some justice without a class action suit like this.

14

Not A Day Goes By Without Me Thinking About Watchtower

by pale.emperor in

although i consider myself completely "cured" from watchtower brainwashing, guilt tripping and propaganda, i realised today that there's not a day that goes by without me thinking of the cult we left.

i think of my former family and what i'd like to say to them, what i'd try to explain and how i'd say it without them switching the "ignore" button and running away.. today on my instagram account my little step-brother "liked" a picture i posted.

i didn't even know he was still on my friends list.

OnTheWayOut

So you see I can't ever not think about Watchtower, not while it's still influencing my former family and reminding me all the time that it still has them.
Not a day goes by...

Yes, so true. My wife is an active JW and Watchtower is the elephant in the room that we don't talk about. My mother is an active JW, but it's not something we talk about. My mother-in-law and many in-law family are JW. It gets awkward sometimes.

While I am pretty free to pursue an ex-JW lifestyle with Christmas and birthday gifts and whatnot with non-JW family and friends, it's always a bit on the quiet side because of my wife.

Still, I am so glad to be out, I am so glad to be able to think for myself all day everyday. I may have to deal with the subject for years to come, but it is not such a big part of my daily life now.