Has anyone still have the hope..................

by defd 107 Replies latest jw friends

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Is this the good news that the Witnesses preach, the hope that we will populate a new earth, a paradise earth, scrubbed clean of all problems? Who earns that hope? Can hope be earned? Here is a taste of the WT perspective:

    Obedience Instills Hope

    Those who make obedience to Jehovah their way of life experience even now the fulfillment of Proverbs 1:33 which says, "As for the ones listening [obediently] to me, he will reside in security and be undistrubed from dread of calamity".... Clearly, only those obedient to God will have the confidence to heed these words. How important, therefore, that we have an obedient attitude toward that slave! WT October 1, 2002, page 16, para 21

    It is assumed that anyone who is not fully obedient to the Faithful and Discreet Slave lives without hope.
    What does the bible say about hope? In the greek scriptures, there are 53 occurrences of elpis, translated as "hope" and "faith", and a further 32 occurrences of elpizo, translated as "trust" and "hope". To hope is to have confidence in a certain outcome. When Paul healed a soothsaying slave, releasing her from her supernatural powers, her masters were furious.

    But when her masters saw that the hope of their gain was gone, they laid hold on Paul and Silas, and dragged them into the marketplace before the rulers, Acts 16:19 ASV

    These men hoped for material gain. They were fairly confident, as they had profited from this girl in the past. Their hope was simply that they could continue their profit-making enterprise. Now, what is the Christian hope? Peter talked about it at Pentecost,

    Therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced; Moreover my flesh also shall dwell in hope: Thou madest known unto me the ways of life; Thou shalt make me full of gladness with thy countenance. And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him. Acts 2:26-28, 38-39

    I read Peter's speech to mean that our hope is that we can have our sins washed away forever, so that we can approach God to have a personal relationship with Him. Is this hope for a paradise earth?

    For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah's womb; yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. Romans 4:16-21

    Abraham hoped he would become a father of many nations, as God promised. His hope was well-placed. He was able to perform, and Sarah became pregnant. Was he hoping for a paradise earth? Do the "other sheep" participate Abraham's hope, or is this promise reserved for the priveledged?

    through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only so, but we also rejoice in our tribulations: knowing that tribulation worketh stedfastness; and stedfastness, approvedness; and approvedness, hope: and hope putteth not to shame; because the love of God hath been shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Spirit which was given unto us. For while we were yet weak, in due season Christ died for the ungodly. Romans 5:2-6

    So, is the WT quote above biblical, that hope is reserved only for the obedient? Is total obedience to an admittedly human organization with human failings the same as being obedient to Christ, the only perfect human to walk the earth?

    Who will come between us and the love of Christ? Will trouble, or pain, or cruel acts, or the need of food or of clothing, or danger, or the sword? Romans 8:35

    Does this quote refer to our unfailing love, or Christ's? I assert that only He is unfailing and unwavering. Now this is the hope that I can trust in, that He will help me when I fall, that He will unfailingly love me and support me. What happens when I die? Merely a side benefit. I can wait to find out.

  • alreadygone
    alreadygone

    Nope. 'cuz its a crock of shite!

  • zen nudist
    zen nudist

    dont need it.....

    when I discovered that reality is perfect until you compare it to something its not, I realized that paradise was not lost physically

    but mentally....

    as soon as humans decided somethings were good and somethings were bad, they drew an imaginary line right across reality which had no basis other than individual opinion and gross igorance of how reality does work compared to how we wish it worked.

    so the way to regain paradise is not to wait for some fantasy being to make earth into a fantasy land, but to reailze that earth is as it must be and always has been.

  • delilah
    delilah

    I have the hope, if you will, that God will take care of things, his way, in his due time. I no longer subscribe to the "living forever in paradise on earth" view.

    BTW, Def'd, I must say, THANKYOU, for your reply back on page 2, where you said, " I cannot and would not say yes, Jesus is the final judge, not me."

    This is, perhaps the first time I've heard a JW say these words, and not be judgemental towards those of us who've left the organization.

  • BrendaCloutier
    BrendaCloutier
    Brenda,

    : DefD... Are you truly a JW? I am surprised you are willing to use the King James version INSTEAD of the NWT to "prove" your points. Afterall, the KJ version is frowned upon by the WTBTS as a false version.

    : So in recap: You still support Jehovah's Government on Earth with Isa 9:6, but you only support it with the KJ version of the bible. That don't fly.

    Be nice to the poor chap.



    Cyggy, I am being "nice". However, to be a JW apologist, or even an active JW, to site a verse in the bible - I was not outta bounds ASSuMEing that he meant the NWT, and then to say that that's not how it really is, to use a different bible, one the WTBTS frowns upon.... It's the same as saying "No not THAT NEW Watchtower, use THIS OLD Watchtower! See, the old one proves my point."

    Just goes to show, not all bibles are created equal.

  • BrendaCloutier
    BrendaCloutier

    Zen, nicely said.

  • heathen
    heathen

    Great point from jgnat ---- how many times does the bible say not to put your trust in man for salvation ? Just curious....

  • doofdaddy
    doofdaddy

    James Thomas knows

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    defd:

    I've just been catching up on the night's threads and so have just read your experience:

    I sadly agree with you. In my Congregation it is the same way. One time i was talking to an Elder and he made a statement about Jehovah Judging usin the end. I interupted and said, No, brother, Jesus will Judge us. He then said you know what i mean! which i did know what he meant. But I told him that is why alot of people dont think we believe in Jesus because we do not give him credit where his credit is due.

    I gotta tell ya that this is precisely how i started having my eyes opened! I found in our congregation there was one brother, a zealous person who both pioneered regularly and actually loved his Bible, who was the only one who reasoned the way you did.

    It was the failure of the WTS to satisfatorilly deal with my questionsd on the nature of Christ that led me to believe that it's not "the Truth" that it boasts to be.

    I hope you think long and hard about why it is that "the brothers" fail to give due "credit" (as you put it) to Christ. Why do you think it's so?

    Ozzie

  • Es
    Es

    Whats with all the deep and meaningful questions here dfed are you like counting time by preaching to us.

    No i dont believe in a paradise earth, why? Coz that means the JW might be right bout other stuff which they are not.

    es

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit