A comment I heard tonight

by Generic Man 300 Replies latest jw experiences

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  OldSoul

  Schizm: ...they see how shallow the minds are of those here who condemn the WTS for having become an NGO.

  Ah. So you would say that shallow minds are at work where lowly publishers presume to hold their teachers to the same standard they are expected to adhere to? Interesting. Oddly enough, the Bible does contain insight on Jesus' feelings on that specific score. Shall we take a look?

  Matthew 23:1-3
  Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

  Jesus was obviously speaking tongue-in-cheek when he said, "All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe..." He did not do everything the Pharisees instructed and neither did his disciples. But the principle is plainly there for anyone to see. Any hypocrites who sit in the seat of teacher fit this category. Did you think we should not be examining certain ones, or that certain ones get away with hypocrisy while others are punished? That is not the case.

  According to the WTS, receiving the mark of the beast means supporting the UN, whether merely a show of support or whole-hearted support. What is that first criterion, again?

  No wiggle room. Inexcusable. Easily provable. Pants down, their collective hindparts are showing a withered old fruit-bowl to the world.

  By the by, good fellow, it might do your argument a good turn to understand terms before using them. The WTS is now, and always has been, an NGO. NGO means "Non-Governmental Organization." Their being an NGO is not inflamatory in any way. Their affiliation/partnership/association to the UN/DPI as an NGO is what constituted, by their own standards, voluntary disassociation from the Christian faith. (see OD p. 155 par. 2; OM p. 151 par. 1)

  They became an NGO when they became an organization that was non-governmental. That occured in the 1800s and that status continues to our day. Shallower minds than yours might not grasp that key detail, but I can tell you are sharp enough to get the point.

  OldSoul
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  iiz2cool

  With regards to the part of your statement highlighted in red, that's just plain stupid of you.

  You're the last person in the world that has any business calling anyone stupid.

  As for my statement, it's accurate. It's happened.

  By the way, don't count me as a return visit.

  Walter
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  OldSoul

  Walter: By the way, don't count me as a return visit.

  ***Tears*** Keyboard will be damaged...must...stop...laughing!
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  Country Girl

  That's another thing I didn't understand about the Hoovers. They assume that the prophecies of the Bible are real, and make their own interpretation of them, but then they turn around and say that God does NOT know the future, that nothing is predestined, and fate has no play in human life. Well, if God didn't know the future of humans, how could he reveal the future to these prophets who were supposedly writing about their visions of the future?

  CG
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  adelmaal

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/85391/1.ashx I have been so happy to ... get involved in the community and politics and to just be a part of society. I have no clue where to go with my spiritual life though... -- adelmaal .

  ROFLMAO!

  Funny how you selected a tiny portion of my very first post here at JWD out of some 340+ since... Yes, I have been in a growth process spiritually. I'm glad you find it humorous that my having been a part of the JWs left me spiritually stunted. I, unlike you, admit that I do not have all the answers and I am seeking them. Just to ensure you do not quote me out of context, below is the entire portion of my post you picked apart above:

  I am so glad to have found this site Let me tell you a little about myself...

  I was not raised a Jehovah's Witness. I studied as a teenager with my boyfriend's sister. We both ended up getting baptized (I was 17). I quickly became a pioneer and eventually gave multiple assembly parts, etc. (I was a Witness for about 10 years; my family freaking out the entire time because they were not Jehovah's Witnesses). My family tried to have a preacher come when I was studying and he walked away with his tail between his legs. My friend's mom also tried to speak with me and she got nowhere. I really thought I had found "the truth". Everything looked so perfect then. I skipped college to pioneer, I alienated my family and "worldly" friends and I feel I missed out on so much; including my youth.

  Eventually, I ended up divorced, disfellowshipped and alone. I decided to get reinstated and it took me extra long because my ex's dad was the PO and made it really difficult for the elders in my new congregation to reinstate me. So I went to meetings for over a year disfellowshipped with a newborn and 3 year old by myself feeling completely alone. I must have been a glutton for punishment! I later realized how unhappy, unsupported and overburdened I was in that religion and I just drifted away from it about 5 to 6 years ago. The elders would visit me periodically and it took me awhile to get to the point where I eventually told them I was happy and uninterested in being visited any longer. I told them I wanted to live my life and my personal relationships and feelings were none of their business. I was so proud of myself. I would have disassociated myself but thought it would cause lots of problems in dealing with my daughter's dad and his family because the were/are JWs. I also did not want them telling my daughter I was dead in God's eyes and I was going to be destroyed (not that they don't say those things anyways). My daughter is now 10 and she is exposed to the meetings and field service 50% of the time as we have joint custody. I have been so happy to rediscover relationships with my family, to get involved in the community and politics and to just be a part of society. I have a wonderful husband, three great children and I feel like I have re-discovered life. I have no clue where to go with my spiritual life though... I feel like I cannot get involved in any organized religion and I just don't know what truth is anymore when it comes to religious beliefs and the Bible. I try my hardest to be a kind, loving and understanding person. To help as much as I can and to take care of my family and help them to be good people. I disagree with allot of Jehova's Witnesses' practices and beliefs but I have not been able to find my own spiritual beliefs. I just ordered "Crisis of Conscience" and the other book by Brother Franz and I am finally going to start reading the Bible again. I have had no relationship with God since I left the organization. I have been so much happier in every other aspect of my life though and I feel so much less judgmental and so much more accepting and loving than I did when I was in that religion. I worry about my daughter allot though. It's drama when she wants to celebrate holidays, salute the flag, have worldly friends, etc. at school and when she is with us and yet she will get in trouble for doing those things when her dad or his family (he's 33 and still lives with them) finds out. She is too young to take a stand over there because she will get in trouble, get lectured and be made to feel bad. So I think she just tries to lead a double life and lie to them about it. So then they think we are forcing her to do things that bother her conscience. It's drama! It's not right and they expect everyone else to bow to their way of doing things while they are completely intolerant of any other way of doing things. They always play the "it means her everlasting life" card. Can you tell I'm frustrated... My daughter is being pulled in two different directions and I just keep telling her that her dad's house and our house are different. We have different beliefs. It is good to be exposed to different ways of doing things and when you are old enough you will decide how you want to do things in your house. I let her know we love and support her decisions and we will accept her no matter what she decides. I let her know she is not allowed to get baptized until she is 18 though because she is not old enough to decide how she wants to live the rest of her life. I know her dad and his family have an altogether different view though and they tell her she will die or she will displease Jehovah if she doesn't do things there way. I just don't quite know how to deal with such powerful arguments and daily teachings... Ok. So that was allot about myself - LOL. Anyways, I've babbled long enough. I'm happy to have found people who understand what it's like to have been a JW or to be a JW or even just to be close to someone who is a JW. I wish you all the best!
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  xjw_b12
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  Schizm

  Ehud was fulfilling a requirement of the Moabite King's law in bringing the tribute. Ehud did not express any praise for Eglon, did he? He never agreed to support Eglon, did he? He announced merely that he had a secret errand for him. A message from God. It was true. He did. No deceit whatsoever.--OldSoul.

  The POINT is that Ehud engaged in the art of "Theocratic Warfare," all in the interests of true worship. He wasn't there simply to pay the "tribute". He intended to kill Eglon. He FOOLED Eglon into thinking there was a message from God for him. Of course there really was no message from God that Ehud had to deliver. That was merely a PLOY used by Ehud so as to gain a private audience with Eglon. Since you claim that Ehud truly did have a message from God for Eglon, then what was the message? Of course you're going to say that the "message from God" was that he decreed that Eglon should die at Ehud's hand. That's about the level of "smart" you have.

  Besides, in the case of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society becoming an NGO Affiliate associated to the UN/DPI and maintaining that relationship for ten years, the WTS says there was criteria "to which they could not subscribe" and that because of this "criteria" they "disassociated [them]selves."

  So, are they lying to me when they state why they disassociated themselves?

  What they "state" is just some more of their Theocratic Warfare strategy. That's all it is.

  To what end? Am I their Theocratic enemy, as well?

  There's no question whatsoever of you being the WTS's enemy.

  The big, ugly, easily provable stain is still right there so that anyone who cares to look can see it. Blemish? More like indelible red dye.

  So much for keeping themselves "without spot from the world."

  Since their being an NGO was nothing more than making use of Theocratic War so as to gain an advantage then it stands to reason that the WTS is still without spot from the world. The WTS fooled the UN much the same way Ehud fooled Eglon. All said and done, both the Ehud and the WTS got what they wanted.

  BTW, my bringing up David and what he did was not directed at YOU. As smart as you are it would seem that you'd have detected that.

  .
• 

  OldSoul

  I have no clue where to go with my spiritual life though... -- adelmaal

  Just for brief clarification: Do I understand that although you do not know where to go (future positive) you are absolutely certain where not to go (future negative)?

  It seemed clear to me. Maybe I am just shallow enough to get your meaning. Might I respectfully recommend avoiding the concept "where" altogether, and adopting instead the concept of "whom?" That is what Peter asked. He knew that he didn't look to a specific place or to an earthly organization for spiritual guidance anymore. He looked to a different source. I encourage you to follow that example.

  Respectfully,
  OldSoul
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  OldSoul

  Schizm: Of course you're going to say that the "message from God" was that he decreed that Eglon should die at Ehud's hand.

  There was no deceit. The art of metaphor is apparently lost on you. That was exactly what God's message was.

  Read Judges 3:15, "But when the children of Israel cried unto the LORD, the LORD raised them up a deliverer, Ehud the son of Gera, a Benjamite, a man lefthanded: and by him the children of Israel sent a present unto Eglon the king of Moab."

  Are you saying the Bible is lying? Misrepresenting reality? Obfuscating truth? If Ehud was raised up as a deliverer from the hand of the Moabite King, then Eglon's death was a message from God. Are you really so lacking in sensibility that you cannot discern that?

  Either way, there was no deceit on Ehud's part. He was checked for weapons. He was a known to be from an aggressor nation. He did not pretend otherwise. He clearly stated he had a secret errand, which was true. He said he had a message from God, which, according to Judges 3:15, was also true.

  Spin the wheel again, me boy-o. Spin 'er again. Yer gettin' dizzier by the turn.

  OldSoul
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  Schizm

  I try my hardest to be a kind, loving and understanding person.--adelmaal.

  ROFLMAO!

  .