by OldSoul 604 Replies latest members private
"beliefs of the society" and truth? are interchangable to this person, one who is under mind control and doesn't know it.
Bible truths are completely different, but those with blinders on cannot see. Thus no scriptures will never be used to back up society beliefs.
My grandmother was coerced into ?the truth? 80 years ago
while there is still time!!!!!!
, my mother was coerced back into ?the truth? 45 years ago
while there is still time!!!!!!,
I was coerced into ?the truth? 15 years ago
while there is still time!!!!!!.
Make's ya think!
Perhaps the best piece of advise offered from AFIN has been this.
Wake up
Steve.
You give 'touching' answers indeed
I warned you. My post last night shows the danger of posting while sick with the flu after having a hot toddy. I regret the way it reads now - even more 'touched' than usual and I'll probably regret this one in a few hours. Oh well.
The sister you studied with 34 years ago would not give you the same answers today .. and you know why. (If she is still alive) she in good conscience could not even give you the time of day. As an apostate now, you are considered unworthy to her and you always will be if your beliefs stay as they are.
Her name was Guila McDonald. She was a sweet old lady, who sat on the floor with me and studied only the Bible. We never once used the Society's literature and we studied together over a year before my parents started. I was luckier than most in that I was taught emphatically to never put the Society's words above the Bible, her reasoning (and one I still agree with) is that the faithful & discreet slave are fallible.
She was the first truly kind person I had ever met, and I still view her coming into my life as a gift from God. She passed away over a decade ago. Would she still talk with me? I'd like to think she would, but who knows? Honestly most of my JW friends started shunning me while I was still active, i.e. going to meetings, service, et al. Not because of 'apostate' thinking but because I had the gall to stand up and say I was abused. Apparently that revelation, in their eyes, made me damaged goods. It was their hostility and shunning that led me to investigate what the JW teaching was, which then in turn led me out of that organization. As with Mrs. McDonald (never called her sister) I view their cruelty as a gift from God. It was the only thing that would have pried me away from that sect.
I still have JW friends, my best friend is in fact an elder. Yes they know what I think (I've never been shy about saying what I believe) but we all have reached an understanding. We care for each other enough to put aside differences in religion. We agree to disagree and let it go.
As for being unworthy, well there I certainly agree with you. I cannot imagine what I bring to any friendship, and I understand even less why anyone would want me as a friend. But like other things I don't understand, cruelty to children, algebra and quantum physics, I accept it as a reality.
do you not feel you might be the object of that rage by turning people away from the truth?
Certainly, and I am prepared to accept the consequences if God is as you, and the Witnesses, claim he is. I long ago came to the conclusion I would rather be murdered by that God than live in a world ruled by an organization that condones pedophilia, punishes children who seek help and cares more for money and image than people.
It is a matter of history that your attitude, as quoted above, has been used by other religions to harm people, to force them to do acts against their will. Wars, rapes, torture and every atrocity one human can do to another has many times been done all in the name of God, and all because they believed were doing "God's will".
I submit that if God has plans to destroy this world, and kill billions of people, then he has a responsibility to step forward and let us unworthy humans know what he wants. Not from some religious sect who cannot defend itself against honest questions, but from God himself and in a way we unworthy humans can understand and accept. That he doesn't says more about a loving, kind and inclusive God than it does a vengeful, harsh one waiting to kill billions of people.
17 years ago when I was still in, I prayed constantly to God. Show me (I'm from Missouri), tell me where to go. I choose to believe he did. A door was opened. (Careful what you ask God for, he might just give it to you.) I look back now in amazement I was ever part of that sect. What I hear from you, is remarkably similar to what I heard from 9 elders all those years ago: come to meetings, go out in service or God will kill you. No, that's not a God of love. One who truly loves, do so unconditionally. Jehovah's Witnesses rule people through fear; fear of death, fear of shunning, fear of peer pressure and on and on. Rather like your post to me (come back or else), eh?
Be well,
Chris
Chris .. What ever made you think God's love is unconditional? That sort of love has been devised by man .. there have to be conditions or there is no structure. Look around at all the beautiful creations God allows all mankind to enjoy. Obviously, there are always conditions .. none of us would be here without structure and that is what conditions is all about.
No, I do not tell you or anyone else .. do this or that or you are dead in God's eyes. Only Jehovah can read hearts. Wouldn't you think He would remember the one who truely tries to do His will? If that is what you think you are doing .. so be it .
BigTex: The God I was taught about is kind, patient, endearing and most of all, loving. It would show a great deal of love to recognize another's pain, and then do what is necessary in order to begin to relieve such pain. Answers go a long way toward such relief.
Big Tex: My point? Well if we are to accept the belief that God is our heavenly Father it is reasonable to believe he would also have the capability of looking past certain behaviors, discern their cause, and then set about to help. Forgive me, but let me share one of my beliefs. I choose to believe in a God that has the capability of feeling the same spectrum of emotions that we have.
Big Tex: "No one knows anything. We do our best and trust in a kind and loving God to do right by us." So I think of that whenever I'm faced with the prospect of facing God at Armageddon. It simplies the whole question of who has The Truth and kind of eliminates the need for endless arguments.
AFIN: You say that 'to do our best and trust in a kind and loving God to do right by us' .. this is true but only if we put full faith in Him. You can't speak against God and still expect His protection.
Hmmm ... that's odd. I didn't see anywhere that Chris "spoke against God". As a matter of fact, Chris said some pretty positive things in favor of God!
Oh wait .... AFIN, you mistyped didn't you? Your sentence should have read: "You can't speak against the WTS and still expect God's protection". Right? That's what I thought.
Last night at the book study, the PO was talking about how we should rely on Jehovah for strength, hope, help, etc. because in this system we can't do things on our own. As he was rambling on, I kept thinking to myself, "Come on, say it ... you have to say it ... you can't talk about that without saying it ..." And sure enough there it was ... he couldn't just instruct us to rely on Jehovah, trust in Jehovah, love Jehovah, ... he HAD to throw in at the end, "AND HIS SPIRIT DIRECTED ORGANIZATION".
I almost went through the ceiling, even though I knew it was coming. I elbowed my husband in the ribs, who nodded knowingly (progress there, you know) ... and I seethed for the rest of the study.
All the way home I ranted about how the JWs hold their organization as equal to God - "we need Jehovah AND the organization!!" - "if you leave the organization, you are leaving Jehovah!!" - "without the organzation, one cannot understand God's word!"
Let's see ... Jehovah existed for HOW MANY years before the JWs came onto the scene??? Looks like between the time of the Apostles and the time the JWs were created all of those who lived in the meantime were not worthy of God's "spirit directed organization". What? Did Jehovah have amnesia during that time and "forget" to create a spirit directed organization? If the only way to Jehovah is through "his organization" - what of all those poor folks who lived while there wasn't an "approved organization"? I guess they're screwed?
Give me a break!
"what of all the poor folks who lived while there wasn't an "approved organization" ?"
All who never had a chance to hear a witness will be remembered by Jehovah. (at His discretion)
Today, the message is being preached in all the inhabited earth.
Jehovah existed for HOW MANY years before the JWs came onto the scene??? Looks like between the time of the Apostles and the time the JWs were created all of those who lived in the meantime were not worthy of God's "spirit directed organization". What? Did Jehovah have amnesia during that time and "forget" to create a spirit directed organization?
Excellent question. Why was there no "organization" previous to the development of the WTBS?
All who never had a chance to hear a witness will be remembered by Jehovah. (at His discretion)Today, the message is being preached in all the inhabited earth.
I know that's what the JWs say - that's not my point.
My point is - where was God's "spirit directed organization" before the JWs??? Other religions have existed throughout the entire inhabited earth long before JWs - so where the heck were the JWs if they are God's "chosen organization"??
Jehovah has always had representatives on the earth. Ask the person you study with .. she will provide evidence.
