Bill Bowen on VH-1 discussing jw sex abuse!! (MichaelJackson biography)

by sf 66 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • Tatiana
    Tatiana

    I watched both the VH1 show and 48 Hours also tonight. Watching Bill Bowen was surreal. I kept thinking to myself, "This is REAL! Worldly people are watching this. OMG. I can't believe it."

    I thought he was great. I read what you said, Mulan, before I watched the show, but wanted to actually hear what he said before replying. Actually, he wasn't wrong. At least not in my congregation. I remember when I was only 12, I got a phone call from a boyI knew from the KH, and my mom went balistic. She hit me, hung up the phone, and actually went out and bought a phone lock. I guess she didn't care that if the house burned down while we were there and she wasn't, we couldn't even call the fire department. As long as we weren't talking to BOYS!

    I was never allowed to talk on the phone to any guys. None of my girlfriends were either. I was too young to be thinking about marriage, so why should I be talking at all?

    As for the shows......

    After watching both, I don't believe he did these things. I think he was a very sensitive boy who wanted to do "right." I think he believed in everlasting life, and true love, and innocence. I'm quite sure he saw terrible things, not only at home with the abuse, but in the entertainment industry. He watched his father and his brothers getting groupies. He was exposed to sexuality at a very young age. Imagine lying in bed pretending to sleep. You are a little boy. You can't go anywhere. You hear the sounds of fornication. You think your brothers and father are going to be destroyed at Armagaddon. You have to lie to your mother.

    He said that children were the only ones who would never hurt you. That's why he surrounded himself with kids.

    He wanted a garden of eden/new earth. (Neverland) He wanted to stay young. He wanted innocence. (What we ALL used to want) Things that you will not find in this place. With his money, he tried to make that kind of place. You can't be truly innocent in this world.

    On 48 Hours, they showed evidence that the people bringing the accusations are not very reputable. I don't even know how he can even possibly get a fair trial.

  • kls
    kls

    My jw husband and i watched to show last night ( VH1) and it did not phase him a bit, no reaction nothing until Bill Bowen said that jws were not to talk on the phone then he started in how this is a bunch of crap and the Jacksons are not real jws and Bill Bowen is a Apostate and a lier.


    It is so hard to see how blind and gullible he is with no end in sight. : (

  • garybuss
    garybuss


    The reason the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation pounds on the doctrine of "unity" so hard is:

    To make the Witness people think that the Witness people believe the same, but they do not:
    To make the Witness people think that the Witness people behave the same, but they do not;
    To make the Witness people think that all the Elders follow the same rules, but they do not;
    To make the Witness people think that the Witness congregations are all the same, but they are not;
    To make the Witness people think that the Witness people function the same way in other countries, but they do not;
    To make the Witness people think that the Watch Tower Society is bound by the same rules they apply to the Witness people, but they are not.

    Witness group unity is a teaching but not a reality. Surprisingly most Witness people I know buy into it unquestioning.


  • johnny cip
    johnny cip

    SKALLY ; LET ME KNOW WHEN , IT'S TIME TO PISS BETHEL OFF. JOHN

  • DaCheech
    DaCheech

    Just for FYI:

    When I was dating my wife, I was not allowed to hold hands. An elder saw us once holding hands at a

    JW gathering, and we found ourselves being counseled after the next meeting!

  • gypsywildone
    gypsywildone

    I saw the VH1 show last night. I could not find fault with it. The good thing is it will reach a younger audience & be repeated. Spread the word! I'm sure you will get the usual argument: "He wasn't baptized. They weren't strong in the truth. They were only studying. They fell away & look what happens to those that leave!"

    Same thing every time one of their own goes ape shit. Nobody wants to know them all of the sudden.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Telephone Dating

    g02

    10/22 p. 20 Do I Need a Mobile Phone? ***

    Regularly talking to or exchanging messages with a member of the opposite sex over the phone could be a form of dating. Please see the article "Young People Ask?What?s Wrong With Talking to Each Other?" in the August 22, 1992, issue of Awake!

    ***

    g01 12/22 p. 25 Young Dating?What?s the Harm? ***

    What

    Is Dating?

    ?We?re not dating. We?re just friends,? many youths claim, even though they are spending a lot of time with someone of the opposite sex. But whatever you call it?dating, going together, or just seeing each other?when a boy and a girl single each other out and start spending time together socially, more than friendship is usually involved. And dating does not have to be in person. Discussions in Internet chat rooms, on the telephone, through the mail, or by E-mail can also be forms of dating.

    ***

    g92 8/22 pp. 17-19 Young People Ask . . .What?s Wrong With Talking to Each Other?

    ?WE?RE not dating, we?re just talking.? That is how 17-year-old Denny describes his relationship with Tina. They met at a convention of Jehovah?s Witnesses, and since then they have regularly had long conversations on the telephone. Denny admits they are too young to pursue a serious courtship. But he sees nothing wrong in their simply talking to each other.

    Many youths who are not allowed by their parents to go out on formal dates are allowed to nurture friendships with the opposite sex by frequent conversations and phone calls. Innocent fun? Perhaps. But some parents are alarmed. "There seems to be quite a problem here with very young teenagers ?going? with other young teenagers," writes one concerned parent. "They are not dating, but they do consider each other boyfriend and girlfriend."

    Other youths cultivate boy-girl relationships by writing. These letters may be nothing more than innocent expressions of friendship. Oftentimes, though, they become increasingly romantic in tone. Romantic involvement may also result when youths get involved with writing individuals who are known to set poor examples as Christians. It may be claimed that the correspondence began as a sincere attempt to encourage such ones.

    Talking

    or Dating?

    The Bible does not condemn talking or writing to members of the opposite sex. Christians are supposed to "have love for the whole association of brothers," and that includes peers of both sexes. (1 Peter 2:17) The Bible further tells young men to treat "younger women as sisters with all chasteness." (1 Timothy 5:2) When this principle is applied, young men and women can enjoy clean, wholesome relationships?yes, friendships!

    Christian youths normally enjoy such friendships in group settings, however. So when two youths single each other out for special attention, the relationship begins to take on the appearance of a romance, a courtship. Is this necessarily the same as dating? Most youths would probably say no. However, teenagers are not always sure exactly what adults mean by dating.

    When one group of youths were asked to define dating, more than half said it meant ?to go out with a person of the opposite sex.? Some defined it as meaning ?to get to know someone better.? An informal survey among a group of Christian youths yielded similar results. One 13-year-old boy said: "A date is when you take a girl out to the movies and stay out late and then walk her home."

    A dictionary defines the English word "date" as "a social engagement between two persons of opposite sex." Could this not include having regular conversations with someone? And what about such conversations, or social engagements, over the telephone? A young man named Ivan says: "It is a form of dating, especially if you have a prearranged day and time to call this person and the conversation revolves around personal matters."

    The book The Family Handbook of Adolescence notes: "Boy-girl contact . . . is often conducted via notes, letters, and the telephone. Each of these types of communication is valued [among youths] because it allows intimacy at a distance." Even so, as with any form of dating, serious involvement may develop. Consider a young man named Jack. When he became interested in a young woman as a potential marriage mate, he spent a lot of time talking with her on the telephone. "Getting to know a person over the phone can be done," says Jack. "You can communicate thoughts and even feelings over the phone." Jack and his girlfriend got married. Because of distance, many couples have carried on the bulk of their dating by phone calls and letters!

    The issue, then, isn?t whether you say a couple is simply talking, seeing each other, or dating, but what kind of relationship they are cultivating. And when a boy and a girl have singled each other out, this can at least give the appearance of a budding romance. And often it is more than mere appearance. As teenage writer Jane Rinzler explains in her book Teens Speak Out: "If people like each other . . . they will start seeing each other. Chances are it will start by their talking on the phone maybe once, maybe a few times."

    The

    Dangers of Early Dating

    Now it may be all right for two people to start a romantic relationship as long as they are in a position to pursue marriage. But few teenage couples think in the terms of getting married. According to the book Adolescent Development, by Barbara and Philip Newman, teen dating often serves as a mere "form of recreation," a way to ?achieve status? among other youths, and a way to "learn about the opposite sex."

    But as far as Christians are concerned, marriage is sacred, honorable. (Hebrews 13:4) Courtship in any form is therefore serious business?not a form of play. And when one is too young to marry, a close relationship with a member of the opposite sex can all too easily end in bitterness and grief. The Bible puts it this way: "Can a man rake together fire into his bosom and yet his very garments not be burned?"?Proverbs 6:27.

    When Maria was 13 years old, she began experimenting with telephone dates. It was fun for a while. But since she was not old enough to get married, such dating just left her disappointed and frustrated. "Expectation postponed is making the heart sick," says Proverbs 13:12. She also had to deal with the stress of keeping her dating secret from her parents. "Every time the phone rang, I worried that someone else would pick it up?especially my mother. It was embarrassing when she?d ask, ?Who is this?? and would hang up because there was no response."

    Even letter writing has its risks. Charlene, for example, developed strong feelings toward an unbeliever. She confesses: "I began writing him, and we have become more than just friends. He?s an alcoholic, but I?m trying my best to help him. Do you think there is any hope of getting him to slow down his drinking?" Charlene?s attempts to play counselor to an alcoholic are ill-advised and unlikely to succeed, however. She could easily end up in a disastrous marriage.?2 Corinthians 6:14.

    Guard Yourself With Thinking Ability

    Good advice is given at Proverbs 2:10, 11: "When wisdom enters into your heart and knowledge itself becomes pleasant to your very soul, thinking ability itself will keep guard over you, discernment itself will safeguard you." Young people often allow their emotions to guide their decisions. But by using thinking ability and discernment, you can do much to "remove vexation from your heart, and ward off calamity from your flesh."?Ecclesiastes 11:10.

    Discernment helps you appreciate that you are in "the bloom of youth," a time when sexual feelings and romantic emotions are strong. (1 Corinthians 7:36) Close association with a member of the opposite sex?be it in person, by telephone, or even by letter?tends to fan the flames of passion. Why then single someone out for special attention? True, you may want to learn how to deal with the opposite sex. But you can usually do so by enjoying the association of the opposite sex in group settings. Even then, avoid limiting yourself to a small circle of friends. "Widen out" in your association. (2 Corinthians 6:13) Doing so will minimize the likelihood of developing a romantic involvement.

    Does this mean that you can never talk on the phone with or write to a member of the opposite sex? No. The danger lies in developing an emotional attachment to one person. But take care that you do not hurt someone or get hurt yourself. And if in spite of the best intentions, romantic feelings begin to develop, you may need to back off from the friendship.

    It may also help to talk matters over with a trusted adult, such as one of your parents. (Proverbs 23:26) At first you may feel hesitant or embarrassed about disclosing your feelings. But your parents may understand your feelings better than you think.

    It may be years before you are ready to cultivate a romantic interest in a member of the opposite sex. In the meantime, by showing caution and an unselfish interest in others, you can enjoy balanced relationships with the opposite sex.

    [Footnotes]

    Some of the names have been changed.

    See chapter 30 of Questions Young People Ask?Answers That Work, published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.

    [Pictures on page 18]

    Could a telephone conversation be considered a date?

    Holding Hands

    *** g89 4/22 p. 21 How Can I Carry On a Successful Courtship? ***

    Is holding hands, kissing, or embracing appropriate, and if so, when? When done as genuine expressions of endearment?not selfish passion?such actions can be viewed as clean in the eyes of God. The God-inspired Song of Solomon indicates that some fitting expressions of endearment had been exchanged between the Shulammite maiden and the shepherd boy she loved and would soon marry. (Song of Solomon 1:2; 2:6; 8:5) But as with that chaste couple, a couple would further take care that expressions of affection do not become unclean or lead to sexual immorality. (Galatians 5:19, 21) Expressions of endearment should be made only when the relationship has reached a point where mutual commitment has developed and marriage seems imminent. Doing so, you will not be distracted from a primary purpose of successful courtship?really getting to know the person.

    Now the WTS is addressing text messaging during meetings and conventions/assemblies between girls and boys interested in each other.

  • cyber-sista
    cyber-sista
    Witness group unity is a teaching but not a reality. Surprisingly most Witness people I know buy into it unquestioning.

    Gary--exactly...The WT repeats these teachings over and over again and conditions and person into repeating these things over and over again, whether they themselves truly believe it or not.

    Jehovah's people have Love among themselves

    Jehovah's people are united in the same line of thought.

    Jehovah's people are the kindest and most loving people in the world

    Jehovah's people are the only ones serving the true God Jehovah and everyone else is the world is wicked and evil and worthy of death (including innocent children) and destruction by their most loving God Jehovah.

    cybs

  • beebee
    beebee

    So...how come his mother could allow her son to have a birthday party for her and think that presents in paper bags somehow denies what it is??? Also why, if she was such a strong dub, did she repeatedly try to set him up with girls that were not dubs? Was the urge to prove he isn't gay stronger than finding him a "proper" wife?

  • hubert
    hubert

    "Michael Jacksons secret childhood" is on again at 5 p.m., Eastern time today, (Sunday) in case anyone missed it. vh-1

    Hubert

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