Studying with JWs - Confused, Conflicted ...

by RebelliousSpirit 278 Replies latest members private

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  Kenneson

  Rebellious,

  Here would be by questions to the Witnesses on the great crowd. Where does the Book of Revelation say that the throne and the Lamb (Jesus) are located? See Rev. 4:4-5, Rev. 5:6-7, 11-14 Is not the throne and the Lamb in heaven? Now where does Rev. 7:9-10 put the great crowd if not before the throne and the Lamb? And where are the angels if not also before the throne? vs. 11-12 How is that different from Rev. 19:1. See also verses 4-6. If God and his throne and the Lamb are now in heaven (Col. 3:1-2), then the great crowd will be there also.

  Here's my take on the Word.. Was there ever a time that God was "speechless?" Gen. 1 portrays God as "speaking" in the beginning. See verses 3, 6, etc. Does that mean that God never "spoke" before? That he was mute until he "spoke" creation into being? Or has God had a "voice" from all eternity? And this "voice," therefore, is none other than Jesus? John 1:3 has the Word already existing in the beginning. Think of your own word. Does it not emanate from you? Is it somehow less than you? And if you were eternal would not your "voice" or "word"also be eternal? Would it somehow be necessary to create your "voice?" 1 Cor. 1:24 calls Christ the power and wisdom of God. Ask again, was there ever a time that God was powerless or lacking wisdom? Could the power and wisdom of God be less than God? Would they ever have needed to be created?
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  RebelliousSpirit

  The ladies at the hall told me not to let my child watch teletubbies because one of them has a magic bag - its obviously magic because its a little bag and big things like scooters and balls fit into it.

  My husband's childhood best friend was forbidden from having Care Bears because they're "magical". And my husband was not allowed to watch The Smurfs because of the sorcerer in it. So I've heard of that kind of thing. I think the friends in the hall would die if they sat down to watch my 4 year old play Halo 2 with his father.

  They would die a second worse death if they saw all of my tattoos and knew that my husband and I met roleplaying Vampire: The Masquerade online. Did I mention he gave that up when he was reinstated (albeit begrudgingly)? ::sigh:: Anyway I digress ...

  If you are sad about the Catholic Church not being the place you want it to be have you carefully researched other bible based churches?

  I love Mass, and I don't mind the Catholic Church. I do wish they studied the Bible more though, as opposed to so much "ritual" - even though the ritual is rather ndearing, IMHO. I haven't been to Mass since I started going to meetings 7+ months ago. I am going to go this weekend with our sons' Godfather, who is Catholic - I want to see how I feel. I've been a member of my church for 15 years and can you believe I still know no one? That's one appeal to the KH - everyone is friendly and wants to know you. And I don't think they all have ulterior motives, though maybe some do. I like the brothers and sisters in the hall, most of them anyway. I would actually be sad not to associate with any of them anymore.
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  Winston Smith :>D

  I love all of the questions that you ask the JW's!

  And I am TERRIFIED of getting trapped in an organization that would run my life and the lives of my children.

  My instinct is - these are MY children, I am their mother, it is MY decision - so back off! But they don't let up. Is that fortelling of things to come, or what?
  
  I've ALWAYS had faith in God, and in Jesus as my Savior - so that's not the problem. ...- I DO seem to have a problem with the WTS's "sovereignty" and their "interpretation" of what Jehovah God does or does not expect of us.

  Girl, trust your gut. As others have said, you have that for a reason, the JW's are trying to blindside you!

  They can ruin your life, don't let them tell you how to raise your children, and they do expet you to view the WTS as the final spiritual authority adn not the Bible.

  Others gave great advice here.

  All that I'd add is this:

  Don't tell them that you have read anything on the Internet.

  The minute you let them know this, you will be labeled an apostate, or least an apostate in the making.

  The label "apostate" is the most evil label a JW can be given. They would rather find out that you are a drug using child abuser than an apostate, no lie!

  Tread carefully, there are sharks in these waters!

  Good luck and god bless.
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  RebelliousSpirit

  Rebellious...don't give up on hope that you're husband won't come out. My parents are very strong believing witness's and yet I have put some doubts in my Mom's mind. There's still hope yet.

  Honestly FF, I don't think I could stand to see my husband go through the pain again (of being out of the organization). I watched it for the last 7 years we've been together, I didn't like it, and I would HATE to see him go through losing everything again. His entire family are JW - he has a lot to lose - and, it would break his parents' heart, again. Honestly I wouldn't want to see them go through that again either.
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  Valis

  I watched it for the last 7 years we've been together, I didn't like it, and I would HATE to see him go through losing everything again.

  he didn't lose you during that time did he? Either he doesn't have the stomach for "the truth" or he is afraid to make his own way without his traditional family. Not trying to be hateful here, but for as much as they talk about tollerance, and have fought legal battle for freedom of speech in this country, not to mention for religious tollerance in other countries, Witnesses have a lot to learn about real loving kindness towards their fellow unbelieving man. AND the tollerance they so depend on to remain a religious organization towards others. Think about it very seriously and I hope you see what I mean. Once again no disrespect intended, but I have never been one who suffers fence sitters very well.

  Sincerely,

  District Overbeer
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  RebelliousSpirit

  Dear girl: I raised four kids in the "truth" and now we live with a lot of regrets for the years we wasted, the hurt we put them through. My advice: Run as fast as you can and do not look back. Your kids deserve better.

  Can anyone tell me exactly why there are so many who seem to have such regrets, feelings of wasted years, pain, negativity etc associated with being a JW?

  I mean, take my in-laws for example. MIL is a Reg Pioneer who has been in the truth for 30 years. FIL has been an Elder for 15 years. They have a great life, a wonderful marriage, they love the truth, and they are really awesome people! I wouldn't trade my in-laws for anything in the world. It doesn't seem like being JWs has hurt them in any way, or made them unhappy. Same with most of the JWs I know (family friends) - they are happy to be JWs and they are really great people.

  So what causes people to want to run like hell from the organization? What makes people dislike it so much? And why are there a considerable number of very happy JW's who aren't overzealous nutcases? lol!

  These are the kinds of things I wonder about. ::sigh::
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  RebelliousSpirit

  he didn't lose you during that time did he? Either he doesn't have the stomach for "the truth" or he is afraid to make his own way without his traditional family.

  No he didn't lose me during that time, obviously. And he was DA before he met me - of course I've failed to mention why - he DA'd and joined the United States Air Force. At any rate, he is not afraid to make his way without his traditional family - he did that no problem for 8 years. And his parents never did "shun" him, we have maintained a good relationship with them all these years. As I said before, he never had a problem with the JW teachings, even while he was DA he never spoke badly of them.

  Witnesses have a lot to learn about real loving kindness towards their fellow unbelieving man. AND the tollerance they so depend on to remain a religious organization towards others

  This is the problem he had with the organization - the "social aspects" as he calls it. He used to get really angry when his childhood best friend would get nasty with a worldly girl who took an interest in him, for example.

  At any rate ... why did he go back? Because he thought it was his only means of having a relationship with God and that God hated him otherwise. And because he said that like anyone else JWs are imperfect, there are "bad JWs", and he doesn't have to be one of them.

  ::shrug:: I wouldn't say he's a fence sitter, his position is pretty clear. I just want him to do what makes him happy, and as long as he keeps in mind his responsibilities to his wife and his children and the protection of our well-being, we'll make it work. As I have told others - I would rather he be a JW and have a relationship with God, even if I don't agree with it entirely ... then for him to be nothing and have no relationship with God, which has been the case for the last 7 years we've been together. Now if I could just figure out what the heck I should do.
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  r51785

  Why are you being urged to go slow?

  Why do you have to study Watchtower books for months on end?

  Read the Book of Acts. Did people spend months and years studying books before deciding to become Christians?

  How many months did Philip study with the Ethiopian eunuch?

  The fact is that many accepted Christ in one day.

  Brainwashing on the other hand is always time consuming. It takes quite a bit of time to break down a parent's desire to save their child's life with urgent medical treatment. It takes time.

  I was raised a JW, pioneered for five years. But I grew tired of not being able to form or hold an idea or opinion unless it was approved by the Watchtower Society. My brother on the other hand is a loyal witness and an elder. I guess he doesn't have such problems.

  Read George Orwell's 1984. Learn to love Big Brother.
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  blondie

  Hi Rebellious Spirit,

  A couple things you said jumped out at me.

  As I said before, he never had a problem with the JW teachings, even while he was DA he never spoke badly of them.

  And he was DA before he met me - of course I've failed to mention why - he DA'd and joined the United States Air Force.

  Believe me, joining the military was flying in the face of 2 basic Watchtower teachings. staying separate from the "world" and not killing or carrying weapons. That is why the elders interpreted it as disassociating himself, saying he did not agree with this teachings, setting himself apart from the congregation. The fact that his family continued to associate with him was also "flying in the face" of a Watchtower teaching not to associate with Witnesses that are either DA'd or disfellowshipped. Witnesses who do can be disfellowshipped themselves.

  Because he thought it was his only means of having a relationship with God and that God hated him otherwise. And because he said that like anyone else JWs are imperfect, there are "bad JWs", and he doesn't have to be one of them.

  The mistake his making is that it is only a few individual JWs that are bad. I was inactive for a time about 15 years ago and came back with that mistaken notion. After 10 years, I realized that the inner workings, the basic foundation of the Watchtower Society is flawed and corrupted.

  He needs to study the Bible apart from the WT Society and their publications, even using several translations.

  He also needs to find new friends. If his family associated with him during his DAing, then they will if he just stops going, becoming inactive.

  Your children are young...are you ready to refuse a blood transfusion on their behalf? Are you and your husband in agreement on things like this?

  I grew up in a family where one parent was a JW and one wasn't and it was difficult. It can be done if both people love and respect each other.

  The fact that these sisters will tell you point blank that the Teletubbies are magical and your children should not be involved with them is a bad sign. "Good" JWs do not "impose" their conscience on others. Be prepared for more of this. Remember that according to JW teaachings, your husband makes the decisions. Just say, "I'll discuss it with my husband" to deflect it.

  Welcome to the board; I hope we don't overwhelm you too much. It's just many of us have been down the road you are taking.

  Love, Blondie
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  PinTail

  Dear Trapped. Its good you see it now cause latter on down the line you will have spiritual diarrhea eatting then spewing it out because of how it causes you to feel about your present life along with your relationships.