The Holocaust - do we need to know?

by eyeslice 197 Replies latest jw friends

  • Realist
    Realist

    little toe,

    As the atheists often declare to me; the one making extraordinary claims bears the responsibility and burden of proof.

    the strong jewish influence on US politics is not a secret but common knowledge. it would therefore be on you to disprove it.

    But do YOU take issue with it, or is it relegated because of your extreme focus on Jews?

    this thread is about the holocaust. in discussions about mistreatment of minorities i have voiced my opinion on the matter.

    But you do take issue with America's stance on freedom of religion?

    no i take issue with the possible abuse of the system and of power.

    Are you concerned at all about the demographic of other religious persuasions represented in their leadership?

    as i stated previously each ethnic and religious group should be represented approximately according to the size of its population. Deviations will always occur but extreme ones such as under clinton are dangerous imo.

    Be assured that I'll be on the lookout, though.

    enjoy! :)

    No more than whether or not we or they have good relations with Austria, or any other country.

    not a very wise standpoint.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Realist:
    You may try wriggling like a worm on a hook, but that's exactly the position you find yourself in.

    the strong jewish influence on US politics is not a secret but common knowledge. it would therefore be on you to disprove it.

    On the contrary, you also raised, as evidence, the makeup of the American leadership. It was this I contested, and asked you to prove (rather than just "assuming" it to be true because of your likely-biased sources).

    this thread is about the holocaust. in discussions about mistreatment of minorities i have voiced my opinion on the matter.

    You entered the ratio of minority representation into the case as a supporting arguement, so you can't wriggle out of it that easily.

    no i take issue with the possible abuse of the system and of power.

    Based on a personal religious bias?

    as i stated previously each ethnic and religious group should be represented approximately according to the size of its population. Deviations will always occur but extreme ones such as under clinton are dangerous imo.

    Surely part of the freedoms granted to American citizens is the right to vote to be represented, or the right not to? The American public cast (or did not cast) their votes, as they saw fit. No system is perfect, but they have a form of proportional representation that is greater than (for example) the British one. Do you also take issue with the makeup of the British government?

    I wrote: No more than whether or not we or they have good relations with Austria, or any other country.
    You wrote: not a very wise standpoint.

    But nonetheless it is my own, rather than one "borrowed" from revisionists...

  • Xena
    Xena
    here is a widely published list of jewish cabinet members under clinton. let me know if you find this list misleading or inaccurate.

    I didn't miss that...I went looking for your "widely published list" and found it at as you noted on

    pro palestinian/arab sites

    as well was the one were I got that nice little quote. lol very ojective list I'm sure...which is why the question begged to be asked... What criteria is used to come up with such a list?

    i would assume the list is based simply on religious

    so you don't really know do you? Why didn't you just say so in the first place?

    As to why these people were in the positions they were in....why are people usually put in positions? Isn't due to their qualifications? Can you prove that these people received these positions due to their being Jewish (course we still haven't established the critieria for determining their "Jewishness" either have we?)? So is this all just conjuncture and conspiracy theory?

    I am curious...since you seem to have the pulse on this type of thing, what is the make-up of the Bush cabinet and is it more palatable to you?

  • Realist
    Realist

    little toe,

    you are getting silly.

    But nonetheless it is my own, rather than one "borrowed" from revisionists...

    so realizing that relations to a powerful country such as the US are important (especially considering the aggressive foreign politics of the country) is a revisionistic point of view as well? how about that the earth is not flat? is that revisionistic as well?

    You may try wriggling like a worm on a hook, but that's exactly the position you find yourself in.

    LOL i am merely refuting unfounded attacks by you and the PC crowd.

    On the contrary, you also raised, as evidence, the makeup of the American leadership.

    so you disagree that jews have a very strong influence on US politics?

    You entered the ratio of minority representation into the case as a supporting arguement, so you can't wriggle out of it that easily.

    so? what is your argument here?

    Based on a personal religious bias?

    based on unproportionality.

    Surely part of the freedoms granted to American citizens is the right to vote to be represented, or the right not to? The American public cast (or did not cast) their votes, as they saw fit.

    if lets say both candidates are criminals than it is not much of a right now is it? and if the US public votes for bush for invading iraq because of WMDs than i have to question the ability of the average american to cast an educated vote in the first place.

    No system is perfect, but they have a form of proportional representation that is greater than (for example) the British one.

    the few remains of the past such as the house of lords seem to be powerless as far as i can tell (fox hunting for instance). but i know too little about british politics to really comment on it.

    xena,

    Why didn't you just say so in the first place?

    as far as i know i have not claimed to know how the list was compiled. also i have not claimed it to be infalluable as i showed to you in the above quotes.

    if you have the time why don't you look up the biographies of the people on the list and check whether they are jewish or not.

    So is this all just conjuncture and conspiracy theory?

    as i stated several times and showed to you in the quotes above i view it is highly unlikely that the composition came about purely on qualification - as this would mean that the average none jewish american is either considerably mentally inferior to the average jewish person or is not aware that people can apply to these positions.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Realist:

    you are getting silly.

    That would possibly be because I'm British. We are a nation known for it's silliness. We lay claim to such classics as "The Ministry of Funny Walks" and "The World's Funniest Joke" (in German, of course)

    so realizing that relations to a powerful country such as the US are important (especially considering the aggressive foreign politics of the country) is a revisionistic point of view as well? how about that the earth is not flat? is that revisionistic as well?

    No, merely your pseudo-historic outlook on the holocaust. Still wriggling, I see.

    ...the PC crowd.

    Ah, you would mean the historically accurate crowd.

    so you disagree that jews have a very strong influence on US politics?

    I never argued for or against that. That's your assertion, based upon shabby evidence that you have yet to prove.

    I wrote: You entered the ratio of minority representation into the case as a supporting arguement, so you can't wriggle out of it that easily.
    You wrote: so? what is your argument here?

    My point, which along with others really appears to be hurting ya, is that you entered in the disproportional representation of the American leadership as a major piece of conspiracy theory evidence, yet you don't really appear to have any concern for it at all - merely the Jewish aspect. You are undermining your own arguement with every wriggle.
    Gonna address it now?

    I wrote: Based on a personal religious bias?
    You wrote: based on unproportionality.

    Based on disproportionality of a single given minority, that you've shown consistant intolerance towards.

    if lets say both candidates are criminals than it is not much of a right now is it? and if the US public votes for bush for invading iraq because of WMDs than i have to question the ability of the average american to cast an educated vote in the first place.

    Now THERE'S a generalisation. Do you eat them for breakfast? Jews aren't fit to rule and Americans are uneducated pollsters? Did you learn anything from the JW experience? Your research skills don't appear to have improved any, as evidenced by this topic.

    ...but i know too little about british politics to really comment on it.

    It appears that you're in a similar situation for American politics, also...

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Realist:

    You write to Xena: if you have the time why don't you look up the biographies of the people on the list and check whether they are jewish or not.

    As I already suggested, the onus is on you to check the accuracy of your evidence, not for us to run around doing the work for you.

    You presented a theory, based on this "fact", and have been "called out" on it.
    Looks like you're gonna have a busy evening looking up all those biographies...

    You write to Xena: as this would mean that the average none jewish american is either considerably mentally inferior to the average jewish person or is not aware that people can apply to these positions.

    More black and white thinking. You missed options such as "they don't care", or "they think the Jewish guys are doing a good job" or "they don't want to do the job themselves", and others...

  • z
    z
    When kitschy turned creepy
    A new film called "Hitler's Hit Parade" shows how pop culture bolstered Nazi ideology. This ain't no feel-good flick.
    by Associated Press January 10, 2005


    Hitler's Hit Parade is hardly a trip down memory lane. This film's juxtaposition of romantic songs and wartime brutalities can cause viewers to squirm or turn away in horror.

    The disturbing collage of Third Reich musicals, newsreels, home movies, cartoons and commercials, including rare segments in color, shows how the Nazis relied on escapist entertainment to promote their murderous ideology and bolster the veneer of normalcy during the nightmare of Adolf Hitler's reign.

    The 75-minute production, co-directed by Oliver Axer and Susanne Benze, opened recently for a short run in New York, the U.S. premiere after limited screenings in Germany. It's a provocative study of seductive propaganda techniques, a partial explanation of the riddle of mass German support for Hitler.

    Portraying themselves as protectors of German traditions and historic continuity, the Nazis promised law and order and national respect at a time of economic despair when Hitler came to power in 1933. Lighthearted entertainment was allowed to flourish to distract Germans from harsh realities of totalitarianism.

    Sentimental songs churned out by Germany's light-music industry were crammed with code words like "fate" and "homeland" that served as psychological tools to enforce mass conformity. Allusions to discipline and obedience were reflected in seemingly innocuous popular tunes with titles like "Don't Ask How, Don't Ask Where," "Don't Let It Bother You" and "Everything in Life Will Pass."

    "I know a miracle will happen some day and a thousand fairy tales will come true," Zarah Leander, a wartime diva, croons in one segment, hinting at "wonder weapons" rumored to be in Hitler's arsenal to beat back the allies.

    "Entertainment rather than propaganda proved to be the most effective support for the regime," Moshe Zimmermann wrote in his Sueddeutsche Zeitung newspaper review of the film. "One could whistle 'Eternal Spring,' take pleasure in Heinz Ruehmann's amusing films, sing along with the pop tune 'The World Isn't Collapsing' as bombs fell, and the world seemed intact."

    Hitler's Hit Parade (in German with English subtitles) plays out without a spoken commentary, instead using Nazi catch phrases to preface segments on idealized Third Reich society. Lyrics from 20 popular songs serve as ironic commentaries on the sinister policies propelling German industrial expansion for the coming war, mass physical fitness, higher birth rates, anti-Semitism, military training and adulation of Hitler.

    The film shows "how dangerously tempting and engaging the general mood of an era can be," according to co-director Axer. It serves as a warning to "recognize the true, hidden meanings before believing" in the brave new world promised in Nazi rhetoric.

    Interspersed with sugary ballads and sentimental love songs are films of blond girl gymnasts, German cars on the new autobahns, humming factories, a physician encouraging a couple to have babies, Hitler at his alpine retreat and waving to crowds at mass demonstrations and Hitler Youth in military training.

    The scenes become increasingly militant. In a sequence about "Our Women," a home movie shows a German woman and a Slavic man being paraded through a village to have their heads shaved in public for an illegal relationship banned by Nazi racial laws.

    Accompanied by a love song, "A Star Fell from Heaven," the documentary shows anti-Semitic caricatures of Jews, and newsreels of ghettos with people wearing Star of David insignias on their coats.

    With the advertising slogan, "Millions Ride German Rail" promoting travel for pleasure, cattle cars filled with humans are shown en route to Auschwitz, and "Take commuter rail to the country" shows doomed Jewish inmates at another concentration camp.

    To the strains of "When the Lights Shine Again," Germans are shown filing into bunkers to escape bombings. The scene abruptly switches to color newsreels of bombed out cities and smoking piles of corpses.

    "Wake Up, Germany," a Nazi brownshirt slogan, serves as the chapter heading for films showing the liberation of death camps and skeletal survivors, a shrunken head and another head preserved in a jar from Nazi medical experiments.

    In the closing scene, a little boy with a U.S. Army insignia pinned on his shirt, smiles through tears at his rescue from a death camp.
  • Xena
    Xena

    realist, realist, realist,

    You post a list from a questionable source and then dance round and round it when questioned about it. lol I can imagine your distain and ire if someone had done that same to support a postion you were opposed to. How typical...

    Thank you for amusing once again.

  • Realist
    Realist

    little,

    "The World's Funniest Joke" (in German, of course)

    that was indeed a hilarious joke. all the power to monty python!

    Ah, you would mean the historically accurate crowd.

    LOL that was a good one too.

    I never argued for or against that.

    if you don't argue against it than explain the distribution.

    My point, which along with others really appears to be hurting ya, is that you entered in the disproportional representation of the American leadership as a major piece of conspiracy theory evidence, yet you don't really appear to have any concern for it at all - merely the Jewish aspect. You are undermining your own arguement with every wriggle.

    if something is hurting me than it is the irrationality on your side.

    to the rest of the dribble...i never said there is a conspiracy. also as i stated previously i am concerned with any unproportionality in leadership. that you ignore these statements is telling and increasingly pathetic.

    Gonna address it now?

    address that other minorities are underrepresented or that white man are overrepresented? i did so repeadedly. What you seem to not grasp is that this is a thread about the jewish holocaust and not a thread about the suppression of other minorities.

    Based on disproportionality of a single given minority, that you've shown consistant intolerance towards.

    what other minority is overrepresented in the US gov?

    Jews aren't fit to rule and Americans are uneducated pollsters?

    and again something i never said - show me the quote that jews are not fit to rule.

    according to polls most US citizens believed hussein was a threat to them. they reelected bush despite an unpresedented lying campaing and unjustified invasion of another country. So yes, the average american seems badly educated at least about political affairs.

    You presented a theory, based on this "fact", and have been "called out" on it.
    Looks like you're gonna have a busy evening looking up all those biographies...

    seems you are not too familiar with the scientific process. if someone presents evidence and a theory based on it than it is on the other side to disprove it either on logical or factual grounds.

    You missed options such as "they don't care", or "they think the Jewish guys are doing a good job" or "they don't want to do the job themselves", and others...

    you are right, i should have listed these highly probable options as well.

    xena,

    You post a list from a questionable source and then dance round and round it when questioned about it.

    LOL nice try.

    i posted it as what it is.

  • Golf
    Golf

    Avishai & Narkissos. The following are a few books worth viewing, one is "facts are facts" by Benjamin Freedman and the other is by Des Griffin, "Anti-Semitism and the Babylonian Connection."

    I believe the following link has them.
    www.TGS-HiddenMysteries.com [email protected]


    Guest77

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