The Holocaust - do we need to know?

by eyeslice 197 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Realist

  Kenneson,

  i have to say i never heard of Türk before.

  Tuerk said that the Austrian Jewish community prior to the Holocaust numbered 200,000, whereas today Jewish affiliation is about 14,000-- less than one tenth. Some Jews living in Austria may be unaffiliated, he said.

  i have 6 jewish friends in austria. none of them is affiliated with a jewish organisation or synagogue.

  avi,

  Bobby Fischer

  so suddenly the matrilineal jewish tradition is the way to define a jew? interesting.

  valis,

  not all reports fall in this category but yes there definitively is a holocaust industry and it is active world wide. i recommend finkelsteins book about it.

  clinton's gov. was - according to the sites that talk it - composed of about 50% jews. if you can refute the number please do so and if you don't find this ratio unproportional than so be it.

  It seems like you hop from one concept to another trying not to called out as a racist,

  frankly i don't care too much about what you or other PC crowd members call me ... its just intriguing how emotional this debate is. i have not seen similar outcry in debates about the number of palestinian, communist or US bombing victims. shows how easily people are manipulated.
• 

  BrendaCloutier

  Realist,

  where are the blacks, hispanics and asians (don't fall under the poorer groups) in the leading positions?

  In the Federal House of Representatives, Supreme Court, and in Congress. In the State Houses of Representatives, etc. In the cities serving as Mayor, Chiefs of Police, Commissioners. And so on.

  In the US the Blacks Hispanics and Amerindians have a much higher dropout rate and teen pregnancy rate than other nationalities. They have a lower average household income, and disproportionally fall below the poverty income level. Yet they are more and more being represented in all levels of government because they are pro-active and concerned for "their" people, and citizens in general.

  As a european, you only get to see the scum cream on the top, not the next layers that are supposed to keep the cream in line with the constitution, amendments, and laws. And the layers that fight for the people.
• 

  LittleToe

  Realist:
  Since you were too bl**dy lazy to do your own research (else knew what it would uncover), let me just point you to the following excerpts (source provided) from an article that vaguely seems to have a low opinion of the Jews :
  http://www.mafhoum.com/press3/95P1.htm

  The President has chosen a leadership team that, as President Clinton liked to say, looks very much like America. It includes three women, two African Americans, two Hispanics, an Arab American and an Asian American, Mr. Mineta. For a Republican Cabinet, the breadth of representation is astonishing.

  "A Republican Party with a reputation for appointing mostly white males welcomed several members of ethnic minorities to the administration's highest office. Jews, however, were left out of the mix.

  "The omission has left several Jewish leaders concerned about their relationship with the new White House, but most dismiss the notion that Jews must have a representative in the cabinet." No Jews named to Bush Cabinet, but most Jewish Groups don't care, JTA, Jan.3.

  In the case of "Realist" vs "The American Cabinet", in the accusation of over-representation of Jewish members:
  Case dismissed.

  If you want the latest Cabinet list, try here:
  http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/cabinet.html
• 

  Realist

  Brenda,

  Yet they are more and more being represented in all levels of government because they are pro-active and concerned for "their" people, and citizens in general.

  yes hopefully.

  As a european, you only get to see the scum cream on the top, not the next layers that are supposed to keep the cream in line with the constitution, amendments, and laws.

  well i hope they do a better job in the future in keeping the scum under control :)

  toe toe toe,

  now, if you could show me a quote where i stated that there are too many jews in bush's cabinet i would be really impressed.

  here is a comment regarding bush's gov:

  http://www.zipple.com/newsandpolitics/usnews/20010104_cabinet.shtml

  By MATTHEW E. BERGER
  Jewish Telegraphic Agency
  January 4, 2001

  Fleischer will be one of several prominent Jewish faces in the White House, even if they will not hold Cabinet rank. Former Indianapolis Mayor Stephen Goldsmith, who served as Bush's domestic policy adviser during the campaign, is expected to receive a White House job.
  
  In addition, Joshua Bolten will be Bush's deputy chief of staff for policy.
  
  Several Jewish leaders cited Fleischer's appointment as a significant one, as he will be the administration's mouthpiece and will have the president's ear.
  
  "There are enough people in the administration and in the office of the president to ensure that Jewish concerns are going to be closely articulated," said Breger, a professor of law at Catholic University.

  cheers
• 

  Mary

  can someone explain why debating the numbers automatically equates to being a nazi and holocaust supporter?

  Realist, you obviously have no interest in debating anything---you completely ignored any posts where they said something that you couldn't refute (like Abaddon's post, to which you STILL haven't replied). Your racist comments against the Jews about how they themselves "contributed" to the Holocaust "by separating themselves" is clearly not said with any real questioning by you---you're obviously trying to promote the idea that 6,000,000 Jews never died, and that Jews are trying to take over the world and that there's a hidden conspiracy by them etc. etc. etc. It's absolutely PATHETIC and you're not fooling anyone, except maybe yourself. Your bullshit statement that you "have no problem with the Jews" and that you "probably have more Jewish friends that you do" is just that: pure bullshit. By your own hand, you've labelled yourself a Nazi sympathizer with anti-Semetic views, end of story.

  To those who are interested in Jewish demographics and those to try to deny the Holocaust really happened, here's a couple of interesting links. The second one is quite interesting. There was a court case in the 1980's. A group of Holocaust deniers offered $50,000 to anyone who could prove that the Jews were gased at Auschwitz during WWII. I guess the idiots never thougth someone would take them up on it, but someone did. When he could prove to them that his family had all died at Auschwitz, these assholes refused to pay him and it went to court where the judge FORCED them to pony up the dough and to apologize.

  http://www.mossadist.by.ru/HD_p1_ch1.htm

  http://www.mtsu.edu/~baustin/revision.htm
• 

  Realist

  mary,

  a) i have replied to all of abbadon's 10 or 15 points.

  b) i have not stated that segregation caused the holocaust. it caused persecution in the past beginning in the middle ages. only a fool can deny that. also it is clear that segregation does not justify any human rights violations.

  c) the numbers are estimates contrary to what you claimed. it would indeed be surprising if they are not inflated.

  d) i have stated repeadedly that there is no conspiracy. hard work and cooperation are more reasonable explainations of the amount of jewish influence on US politics. this influence has however caused very one sided and problematic US foreign politics especially in the middle east.
• 

  nilfun

  ive seen the Film you talk about...and i too cant remember what it was called!!Grrr

  It had the Young Lad who ultimately blew himself up in a Synagogue?

  that was "The Believer" with Ryan Gosling.
• 

  avishai

  i

  have not stated that segregation caused the holocaust. it caused persecution in the past beginning in the middle ages. only a fool can deny that

  Call me a fool then, because the segregation was PART of the persecution FORCED on them in the middle ages. It was not a CAUSE of the persecution, dummy!! Read the laws on the books in spain, poland, italy, etc. from that time period. The Jews were'nt just segregated but EVICTED from england and Spain. Have you ever read about the spanish inquisition? Look up the word pogrom. Read your history and you'll find out that the segregation was LEGISLATED by the governments of the time, not chosen by the Jews. Geez!!!
• 

  Big Tex

  Realist I have had just about enough of your bullshit. You enjoy playing the role of the superior iconoclast, when in reality your bigotry shines for everyone to see. I have warned you once, and I will not play the games you seem to delight in.

  You are not debating 'numbers' you are minimizing the murders of millions of human beings, murdered by the 'Germanic' people you hold so precious. You wag your finger at America, and yes this country does have its faults. Perhaps on another thread on another day we can discuss it. But you have thoroughly hijacked a worthwhile thread that was started to seriously discuss the Holocaust, an event in which you seek only to treat as some distant anomoly that you can use to smugly stroke your ego.

  I will not stand idly by any longer. Your attitude and conduct on this thread is abominable. You have been called to task time and again and every time you play games and avoid answerning direct questions. And NO I will not give you examples when you bloody well know what I'm talking about.

  You will stop your anti-Semitic posts on this thread. They are not only stunningly idiotic, and beneath someone of your intellect, they are offensive to a great many people, myself included. And no sir, I am not Jewish.

  This thread will return to what eyeslice intended or by God I will lock it.

  "Have you no sense of decency? At long last sir, have you no sense of common human decency?" -- McCarthy hearings, 1953
• 

  Realist

  avi,

  Call me a fool then, because the segregation was PART of the persecution FORCED on them in the middle ages.

  we have been over this before. of course jews were forced into ghettos and unrightly persecuted. on the other hand jews also chose not to mingle with none jews. the rest of humanity is not worse or better than the jewish people...you have racism and religious fanatism on all sides.

  big tex,

  You are not debating 'numbers' you are minimizing the murders of millions of human beings

  bullshit. these numbers are not god given even if they have been declared a dogma in recent years.

  murdered by the 'Germanic' people you hold so precious

  i don't hold the germanic people more precious than any other. on the other hand their history is not worse than that of most other countries as every major country has committed increadible crimes against humanity often with very similar arguments.

  you have thoroughly hijacked a worthwhile thread

  it was not only me who has broadened the topic. and if there wouldn't be a debate about the holocaust the thread had died 8 pages ago.

  You have been called to task time and again and every time you play games and avoid answerning direct questions.

  bullshit. the only issue that everyone is too lazy to look up is whether the list is accurate or not.

  You will stop your anti-Semitic posts on this thread.

  interesting that stating unproportional jewish influence is such a problem especially when no one can come up with a better explaination as to how it arises. you can lock my account or delete it or whatever you wish. this nonesense has taken way too much of my time over the last days anyway.

  they are offensive to a great many people

  i understand that it is an sensitive issue for people especially avishai. he lost people during that time and i am very sorry for that but so did my family. no one sees a problem with debating whether it was justified to annihilate german or jajapnese cities targeting only civilians. no one sees a problem with debating any other attrocity from the annihilation of the indians to the killing of millions by stalin or the injustice done to the arabs. my family has suffered as well but i have no problem to discuss it rationally and in a civilized manner.

  This thread will return to what eyeslice intended or by God I will lock it.

  please do so!