The Holocaust - do we need to know?

by eyeslice 197 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  eyeslice

  This week in UK, there starts a new 6 week series to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz.

  http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/listings/programme.shtml?day=tuesday&service_id=4224&filename=20050111/20050111_2100_4224_37699_50

  Personally, I do not like cinema films about the holocaust and, therefore, have never watched things like Shindler's List or The Pianist.

  I know that 6 million Jews perished in Nazi Germany. I know this should never be allowed to happen again (though it has in places like Cambodia and Rwanda, and probably will happen again in the future). I know we must never tolerate hatred and prejudice in our society. I know we should never forget.

  But, I am not sure that I need to know much more.

  Do we need to know the details or how far should holocaust education go?

  From BBC Website:

  It was the site of the largest mass murder the world has ever seen, yet few people know its full history.

  On the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, this landmark series charts the evolution of the camp and the mentality of the perpetrators, and shows how the place related to the Nazis' overall campaign of extermination.

  With the help of computer graphics based on plans of the camp unearthed in the 1990s, dramatised reconstructions of the key moments of decision and interviews with people who were there including former members of the SS, this series aims to be the most complete history of Auschwitz ever made for television.

  This first episode tells the story of the beginnings of the camp and how it was originally intended for a very different purpose than the murder of Jews.
• 

  dh

  I know that 6 million Jews perished in Nazi Germany. I know this should never be allowed to happen again (though it has in places like Cambodia and Rwanda, and probably will happen again in the future). I know we must never tolerate hatred and prejudice in our society. I know we should never forget.

  But, I am not sure that I need to know much more.

  Do we need to know the details or how far should holocaust education go?

  IMO: Seeing something on paper as just a number doesn't mean much. Six million... People can't even get their heads around the 150,000+ killed recently in physical terms of how many bodies that is, so in my opinion we need to make sure future generations see more than just a number, be it the pictures, videos of the piles of bodies being bulldozed or just hearing the individual stories on TV. I visited Auschwitz when I was younger and I think everyone should go there once in their life to put it in perspective.

  I also know that it's easy to say we shouldn't tolerate hatred and prejudice in society, but we all do it every day.

  I think the day we look at it as just a number is the day we start down the path of repeating it.
• 

  seeitallclearlynow

  Eyeslice, I don't know what motivates me, but this program sounds fantastic. I'm very interested in seeing it.

  For whatever reason, I have watched and rewatched movies like Schindler's List and have been saddened and horrified over and over again. I have in the past actually searched for Holocaust movies of a certain type, or have at least been drawn to them and watch them as soon as I can.

  One thing has changed over time though, and that is the terror and unbearable hatred that would well up in me as I watched. I'm still very moved, but I feel it's more balanced now. I used to be a little obsessed with the Jews, loving them in an irrational way. Now I just observe them as individuals and as a nation and as religious groups and communities, but without any awe whatsoever. I'm sure it was all those years in the Tower, studying and talking about them that had me fascinated with them. And for decades I, though a JW, blamed God for deserting them instead of the Biblical view, that they had deserted him. I don't really believe in the Bible anymore, but if I did, I would still say God deserted them and not vice versa. After all, the religious ones still believe they're the chosen people of God, right?

  How did I miss The Pianist? I'll get it asap.

  Thanks for the topic.
• 

  frenchbabyface

  Well ... how many Native indians have been killed on their soil ..., armenians ... AND how many africans died in the chips (sick to death or drawn because there was not enough water or food) and after as slave and how ...

  Millions and more than 6 (and years to escape the misery) Nobody to help and to tell how awfull this was ... (it took times)

  Maybe we should have more movies but NOW also on other people ... (Germans are not the only one who messed up / and the Jews are not the only one who suffered this kind of horrible bullshit)

  I personnaly don't see any difference in between a mass murder of for instance 1000 people at the same time ... and murders one by one with multiple type of tortures at the same moment/place or not ...
• 

  upside/down

  Like I've said before the Nazi's are the poster child for government "gone bad".

  There have been way worse attrocities... At least (this sounds terrible) the Nazi's had a plan. So many attrocities since have been more of a "mob" mentality, with no real "goal". It's all abominable. But with universal hatred for what the Nazi's did they are a good group to use as an exmple of what not to let happen and what WILL happen if governments aren't kept in check.

  I know I've watched show like this with my kids, and they react the same way I always have- disgust, shock, anger and pity.

  Examples like the Nazi's can't be allowed to fade from history. I hope to see this show in the States.

  u/d
• 

  eyeslice

  At least (this sounds terrible) the Nazi's had a plan.

  upside/down - you've hit on part of the point of this programme. The trailers for this series is a series of statements, "I drew the plans", "I dug the foundations", "I drove the train", "I lead the way", I shut the doors", etc.

  Its making the point that killing on this scale wasn't an act of momentary madness. The Nazi holocaust was meticulously planned and executed by a large number of seemingly 'normal' people.

  Eyeslice
• 

  Incense_and_Peppermints

  There have been way worse attrocities...

  such as...?

  At least (this sounds terrible) the Nazi's had a plan.

  !

  re: movies like Schindler's List and The Pianist: Schindler's List showed the people's personal effects being systematically taken from them, then neatly categorized and labeled, then the people were systematically categorized and tatooed, which drove home the point that they weren't even viewed as humans, but something to be processed and ulitmately, destroyed. then at the end, they had real survivors talking over the credits, and you can't avoid weeping. The Pianist portrayed how the Nazis used fear to take over whole towns and turn people against each other, and illustrated how the SS viewed them as something lower than insects. there was one scene where this young girl dared to ask a question and the guard just shot her in the face, with no warning or feeling, like she was just a fly to be swatted off a picnic table. she was that insignificant. whenever i see the planning of this massive extermination on something like the History Channel, it gives me the chills. i guess because they portray the engineers, commanders and every other facilitator discussing and planning just how to go about pulling off the mass slaughter of millions of people in such a clinical and impersonal way. yes, we need to know. and never forget.
• 

  Mary

  In my opinion, yes we need to know and we need TV documentaries, movies, memorials etc. Those that survived the Holocaust are getting very old now.....they're not going to be here forever. Ever talk to a Jew, a Witness or a Gypsy who were actually in the concentration camps? It gives you a totally different perspective and brings the horror of what happened into perspective. From all the past horrors, persecutions and tortures in mankinds history, the Holocaust is unique because an entire race was being primed for extermination not because of their beliefs, but simply because they existed. Had the Nazi's succeeded, it would be as though the Jews, and Israel itself, had never existed. We should always remember and be reminded of what nearly happened, as one Jewish gravestone says "less we forget".

  There have been way worse attrocities...

  Really? Like what? When was an entire race systematically eliminated just because they existed?

  At least (this sounds terrible) the Nazi's had a plan.

  You're right, that sounds terrible and I can't even imagine what would prompt you to write such a thing.
• 

  Gretchen956

  Really? Like what? When was an entire race systematically eliminated just because they existed?

  Happened by god's command in the old testament!

  Yes we do need to keep this (the holocaust) in our minds, the capacity for this evil has not been eliminated in the world. Torture is once again becoming an acceptable form of interrogation. Who knows what else will come of it?

  Sherry
• 

  seeitallclearlynow

  Ever talk to a Jew, a Witness or a Gypsy who were actually in the concentration camps? It gives you a totally different perspective and brings the horror of what happened into perspective.

  I did get to meet and spend a little time with one survivor - a German Jew who was the maternal grandfather of the girl who studied with me and "brought me in". He came over to visit his daughter's family and we all went to Disneyland. Just to think of a concentration camp survivor later going to Disneyland - it feels bizarre.

  He didn't speak much English and when I asked about his experience he was just quietly serious and said he just couldn't talk about it. It was too horrible. He did mention that one of the details he was on was something to do with latrine duty - deep troughs of some kind, and said if a brother fell in they weren't allowed to help him out or something horrifying. No wonder he couldn't talk about it much.

  I offered to buy him a drink while at Disneyland and he declined; but I so wanted to do something for him, however little the gesture - so I bought him an ice tea though I was aware that they don't use so much ice in their drinks where he's from! And no sugar in the tea. So I asked for little ice and to be sure and put in a piece of lemon.

  This man who had been through so much, was so appreciative of this tiny, tiny act - he kept commenting that it was so "nice" that I had them put a piece of lemon in it" - that he sent me huge boxes of Bavarian chocolates when he returned to Germany - not once, but twice. The second time was simply because I wrote and thanked him for the first chocolates. I felt so bad that he sent me so much!! But how appreciative this poor dear person was of the slightest consideration. He was one of Jehovah's Witnesses btw.